mithril vest

[Boromir88]

The coat was made before the whole dwarf-capturing incident so the dwarves would've been happy to give Thranduil the coat (for a hefty price, of course).

Ok, I see, but even with that in mind I would think the feud between Elves and Dwarves would still be going on. Especially amongst the Mirkwood Elves, with Thranduil despising dwarves so much. Now with Galadriel, being Noldor, has a connection with dwarves (Aule), which is why we see her sympathize for Gimli. Celeborn having connections with Thranduil, and being Teleri, we see him a little more "rude" to Gimli, but he does apologize after Galadriel corrects him. Elrond has always welcomed Gloin in Rivendell, and there is no reason for not welcoming Gloin's son either. That pretty much sums up the dwarves vs. elves feud.

Thinking about Thranduil, and I'm trying to think, before he imprisoned them, what would a reason be that he despised dwarves? Here's an interesting quote from Appendix F...

But [dwarves] are not evil by nature, and few ever served the Enemy of free will, whatever the tales of Men may have alleged. For men of old lusted after their wealth and the work of their hands, and there has been enmity between the races.

Now this is talking about the "tales of men," but as already said Thranduil had a great desire for wealth, and jewels. Being that he lives in Mirkwood, and seeing that the dwarves are away with their own riches and gold, he too might have gotten jealous, and he too might have made "lies." This is just pure speculation though.

made for some young elf prince long ago.

I don't see how Thranduil would know that this "vest" was made for some elf-princeling long ago, it was just that "particular vest." I don't have The Hobbit handy, but Elianna (or someone else), would you mind giving the entire quote, it could be important. Maybe, Thranduil was saying, that wonderful vest should be for an elf-princeling long ago (back in the day of the elves, remember in the 3rd age the Elves began to decline) and not worn by a hobbit who associates himself with dwarves. However, I can not tell what Thranduil means if part of the quote is missing, and we still might not be able to tell.

[the phantom]

Thranduil wasn't the only one who made a statement about the mail being made for an elf-prince.

From The Hobbit-

"Mr. Baggins!" he (Thorin) cried. "Here is the first payment of your reward! Cast off your old coat and put on this!"
With that he put on Bilbo a small coat of mail, wrought for some young elf-prince long ago.

So Thranduil's statement does not stand alone. The narration backs him up.

But do we know for certain that Legolas had no brothers?

[Boromir88]

Thanks for the quote Phantom, if it was just Thranduil who was saying it I would have lots of doubt. I wouldn't doubt that Thranduil would try lie to get the vest. But that quote from narrative backs up Thranduil. Maybe I should be more kind to the guy? Naaa, I still don't like what he did to my dwarves.

[Amarie of the Vanyar]

Originally Posted by the phantom

But do we know for certain that Legolas had no brothers?

We do not know whether he had brothers or not. Actually, I have always thought that Legolas was Thranduil's younger son, because he is never presented as his father's heir but a messenger from his father.

[Boromir88]

We do not know whether he had brothers or not. Actually, I have always thought that Legolas was Thranduil's younger son, because he is never presented as his father's heir but a messenger from his father.

Good hypothesis, there are many possibilities to this answer, however this is a good thought.

Here are some possibilities to the Messenger thing.

1) Your idea, Legolas had an older brother, and he actually wasn't Thranduil's "primary" heir.

2) I don't see why a King/Lord would send their heir, on a mission that they could possibly not return on. However, we see this a lot in LOTR. Boromir begged his father to go and Theodred died in battle. Maybe, Legolas begged Thranduil.

3) Thranduil simply didn't think it was something dangerous. Maybe he thought Legolas would give out the news, and then return home.

I will have to do some searching, but I don't believe Faramir was ever called an "heir," or any mention of him being "heir" until Boromir died.

[A_Brandybuck]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Thinking about Thranduil, and I'm trying to think, before he imprisoned them, what would a reason be that he despised dwarves?

The reasons are at hand. The roots of Thranduil are in Doriath (going round the different Thranduils-Oropher-versions) and there is a huge anger of the sacking of Doriath by the Dwarves of Nogrod. This anger has been outlived till the Third Age. We could see that also in Celeborn.

[Elianna]

Just to clear things up: my quote of it being made for "soome young elf-prince long ago" was from the narration, not a quote of Thranduil.


Hmmm, I wonder if Tolkien had thought that Lego was going to be as popular as he is, would Tolkien have written more about him?

[A_Brandybuck]

Originally Posted by Elianna

Hmmm, I wonder if Tolkien had thought that Lego was going to be as popular as he is, would Tolkien have written more about him?

I don't think so. I remember a quote from Tolkien (having my books not around me), that Legolas did of all members of the Fellowship least.
This is mirrored by the situation of the Elves in Middle-earth at the time of the War of the Ring. Legolas IMHO do represent in a way this situation in the Fellowship. The time for the Elves in Middle-earth is over. And showing 'more Legolas' in the book wouldn't have fit the situation.
So I think that Tolkien gave Legolas this role explicitly.

Leaving offtopic:
Correct me, if I am wrong:

- There is no mention, that the vest was made by the Dwarves of Erebor.
- There is no mention, in which age the vest was made. "long ago" is a bit vague. :-)
- There is no mention, how the vest came to Smaug.
- We know, that Dwarves have made the vest.
- We know, that this vest was made for an elf-prince.

Assuming this, we can think of other potential candidates:

#1 Amroth:
Amroth's history was often changed by Tolkien. In one version, he is the son of Celeborn and Galadriel, but this version was rejected. Or he was the son of Amdir. A a version with Malgalad but without fatherhood.
In every case, Amroth was a prince, before he became King or Lord of Lorien. There was mithril in the near of Lorien (-> Moria).

#2 Celebrimbor:
I am assuming, that Celebrimbor is the son of Curufin and assuming that Celebrimbor was born in Middle-earth. This is not clear, concerning his father, there are different versions and concerning his date of birth, there is no mention, but a assumption, because he didn't swear the oath. (shortly)
The family of Feanor is connected with juwels and such things. Curufin, having a region in the east of Beleriand under his control, could have had some relations to the Dwarves of the Ered Luin.

#3 other son of Thranduil:
There is no mention, that Legolas is the only one.

What about these as a alternative to Legolas?

As a very vague and improbable thesis (not to take very serious), we can choose Elladan and Elrohir. The smith(s) could only have made one vest, but Elrond wanted two. *g*

[Elianna]

Originally Posted by A_Brandybuck

I don't think so. I remember a quote from Tolkien (having my books not around me), that Legolas did of all members of the Fellowship least.

I didn't mean Tolkien might have put more in LotR, but in other essays, that would later have been put in one of the Histories.

Good work with the other possibilities of whose vest it is.