The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-19-2004, 01:05 PM   #1
Neithan
Wight
 
Neithan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 126
Neithan has just left Hobbiton.
Tolkien

Tolkien clearly thought that Men had the capacity for both good and evil, and I think that he was closer to the second view, that too much government corrupts people rather than helps them. For example, Morgoth and Sauron had complete dominion over their subjects and so corrupted them. He also evidently believed that power corrupts people (as in Morgoth and the Numenoreans). I think that the hobbits were products of strict social rules rather than actual laws, and yes this made them good people but also a little foolish, however it was the hobbits who didn't listen to these rules who were the heroes (Bilbo and Frodo).
Neithan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2004, 02:18 PM   #2
Evisse the Blue
Brightness of a Blade
 
Evisse the Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: wherever I may roam
Posts: 2,685
Evisse the Blue has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to Evisse the Blue Send a message via Yahoo to Evisse the Blue Send a message via Skype™ to Evisse the Blue
Acting the part...

If I may take a slightly different viewpoint here:

This experiment was less about seeing how far people would generally go, and more about how far would people go under what circumstances. For instance, a variable that was manipulated during the experiment you mentioned was the look of the building in which it took place. If it looked very professional, the subjects were much more likely to obey; as oposed to it looking like an old decrepit building... (Another variable which was manipulated was the number of people in the room with the subject, besides the 'victim' and the experimenter.)The point being, people are more likely to act in a certain way in a certain context, because it helps them 'play the part' that was assigned to them more easily. In other words, these same people who pushed the limits of cruelty to shocking levels were good citizens, good neighbours and good spouses in other contexts.

Now, this is not consistent at all with Tolkien's viewpoint: according to him, someone was good, regardless of the situation into which he found himself at one point. Nor is anything in his work ever to be blamed on minor details, such as the number of people backing Aragorn up when he went through the Paths of the Dead. He shows the same strength of character and other qualities that he has, scorned by Barliman, distrusted by Sam, praised by the people of Minas Tirith. He and the rest of the good characters in Tolkien's world have no doubt about the right path, and they walk it no matter what. The bad characters as well, choose to walk the wrong path, without ever straying. So there is hardly ever any 'grey'.

While even the best of us in the world we live in nowadays are straying, distracted by minor details, living in a twilight of doubt as to which side we are actually on.
__________________
And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass.
Evisse the Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:15 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.