Do Balrogs Have Wings?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I've read past Balrog wing discussions with aloof amusement and never really taken a stand on the issue. It's always seemed to be the Middle-earth equivalent to the theological debate on how many angels could dance on a pinhead. (Yes, that was a matter of serious discussion; I remember hearing about that in church history, though I no longer remember the details.) However, considering the textual sources and the fact that not all appendices given to creatures in nature are functional, I will go out on a "limb" (pun intentional) and say that I too am of the opinion that Balrogs did have wings, though they were not able to fly.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

ha HA ha ha haaaaaaa. . .

I knew that if I tried long enough and hard enough I could drag you Esty into the dark abyss from which none have ever escaped.

Now, dare you face the chilling terror of the orc-reproduction debate? Or, scarier still (if such a thing is possible) the ears of Elves?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I already voted there, Fordim, but you can't tell what!

[obloquy]

Actually Morgoth could not have given Balrogs wings because, as Maiar, they chose their own shapes. The question then becomes, why would they give themselves worthless wings when they could have, just as easily, had wings that worked?

There's no reason to believe that Morgoth couldn't have given them their forms. That Maiar created forms for themselves was not an axan, just generally the way it happened. If Balrogs were anything like the John Howe conception, I think it is pretty unlikely that they made themselves look so horrible. After all, they weren't created evil, and originally loved the light. Also, if there was one specific Balrog shape, I think it is more likely that Morgoth fashioned the bodies for them.

The books speak of dark "gifts" that Melkor gave to those who followed him, and I believe that they were gifts of those things that were meant for Incarnates, such as food and sex. It jives with the biblical account of the origin of demons--there are quite a few biblical models for Tolkien's writing. Obviously, this rebellion doesn't immediately make them into huge ghastly beasts. If they chose their own forms in which to partake of these gifts, I do not doubt that they would have been impressive and even beautiful. It is only in time, having nurtured evil thoughts and perpetrated evil deeds, and when their forms began to become more than mere raiment, that Maiar lost their ability to appear fair. I don't think this loss would have resulted in the giant, horned, winged monsters that Howe depicts, as glorious as Howe's paintings are. Instead I always imagined Balrogs as tall, impressively built humanoids with an aura of darkness that reflected the corruption of their powerful fea inside. The bit in FotR when Gandalf is on one side of the door and the Balrog is on the other is giving me chills right now as I remember it.

Anyway, I think that it suited Melkor's purposes to have his servants incarnate, and he intentionally made them so. Whether this included creating their forms for them or not, one can't say for sure. But it was possible.

I also think it's silly to think they would've given themselves functionless wings, Esty. :P

[drigel]

Spirit of Fire
Many forms of fire

Fire needs fuel
There is fuel below me but not above

Shadowy wings
Shadows can be used for many purposes
Aerodynamic laws not being on of these

Balrogs had shadowy wings but they were not used for flight

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Originally Posted by obloquy

I also think it's silly to think they would've given themselves functionless wings, Esty. :P

I did not claim that they chose that form themselves, oblo. Perhaps Morgoth, as their lord and master, wanted to keep them frustrated by giving them wings and the wish to fly, but not the capability!

[obloquy]

Tushie!!!

[Lindolirian]

I also think it's silly to think they would've given themselves functionless wings

True, but the teeth seen here have no functional prupose either. It's intimidation. If you were an angry form-changing demon, you'd give yourself wings just to look frightening too.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Allow me to be the first to point out that the machine upon which those teeth have been painted has wings that actually work, and that it can fly. . .

Hmmmm. . .I wonder. . .do balrogs have teeth?

[obloquy]

I think in general people make demons out to be much more beastly than they are. The extent of a fallen angel's carnality is stooping to the level of Man. We're not talking about a wild animal who'll bark and growl and roar and drool. Tolkien was very severe with Bakshi's version of the Bridge because Tolkien's intention was for the Balrog to maintain a dignified and sinister silence. There's no need for eye spots, or horns, or spikes, or scary wings. Durin's Bane was intimidating enough to even Gandalf when he had not even seen him yet.

Think about what we're talking about, folks. These are ancient, mighty fallen spirits, not guard dogs.

[mark12_30]

Well, since I can't exactly decide (and on some days don't care) I'm going to have to log on as an even number of alt-egos and vote myself into neutrality.

Or I guess I can just sit back and watch.

Either way, I'm enjoying the details of the discussion. "Ancient mighty spirits"-- nicely put, obloquy; quite a ring to it.

And about the "if he had wings why not fly back out of the chasm"-- maybe he had enough wind knocked out of him, or was just dizzy enough that he couldn't recover. These assumed bodies are pesky things, and I suspect they have a way of operating unexpectedly under duress.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by obloquy

Think about what we're talking about, folks. These are ancient, mighty fallen spirits, not guard dogs.

Okay, sorry to take this out on a not-so-necessary tangent, but guard dogs got me thinking.

What's the most fearsome guard dog in middle-earth? Carcharoth. Not exactly a Balrog, but not TOO far behind, and if we remember that he is a whelp of Draugluin, it would perhaps not be too improbable to say that he was at least part-Maia (aka supernatural) ancestry, above and beyond the power infused into him by Morgoth or by eating the Silmaril.

Which isn't to say that the Balrogs had guard dog status, by any means, but if you think about the way they do Morgoth's bidding unquestioningly, they certainly don't seem to be portrayed as particularly independent fellows.

Not that they aren't fearsome, and it really doesn't have much to say about their actual shape, but perhaps its worth noting that for all their terror, the Balrogs did the bidding, unquestioningly, of their master. Since they are said to be of the same general shape, it would seem wise therefore to assume that their looks were derived from a "Master" plan, to which they became bound thereafter (being of considerably lesser power than either Sauron or Morgoth, they would seem to have a much more limited potential for changing their shapes. And the more permanently attached to that shape, the less easy it would seem to be to change it. And the Balrogs would seem to have been pretty attached, in the end, to those shapes).

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Originally Posted by Lindolirian

It's intimidation.

What a brilliant and simple explanation! There are plenty of examples of animals who have some kind of physical techniques of increasing their size for that very purpose, so that seems very logical to me. And, since Morgoth was able to corrupt, but not create, maybe he never got the hang of making wings that were actually able to carry the Balrogs!

[Rilwen Gamgee]

I agree with Lindolirian's intimidation theory. The form of Balrogs' wings, as I invisioned them, were shadowy, but with form. Not possessing form enough to actually fly, but enough to frighten its...victim(s).

As many members and a few non-members repeated numerous times, somewhere in the FotR, Tolkien mentions shadows emerging from the Balrog like wings.

Please, whatever anyone wishes to think is great; I'm a believer in forming one's own visuals of characters, but I intend to stick fast to my imagination.