About dwarf women

[Legolas]

but it is true and is in either UT or HoME .....I will check the ref... my guess would be "The Peoples of Middle Earth".

As stated in the original post of this thread, the reference is in the appendices of The Lord of the Rings.

Appendix A, 'Annals of the Kings and Rulers;' III - Durin's Folk.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Legolas

As stated in the original post of this thread, the reference is in the appendices of The Lord of the Rings.

Appendix A, 'Annals of the Kings and Rulers;' III - Durin's Folk.

Yes, but it doesn't specifically mention beards in the appendix (although I admit they are implied) I think the beardedness of dwarf women is stated explicitly in HoME although I have not yet had a chance to look.

It does raise some other fairly boggling questions which probably should be left well alone...

Edit .. for some reason when I posted this the screen hadn't brought up the last posts which raised some of those disturbing questions!

[Thinlómien]

I've just been more about this...
If four of Thorin's companions were women and it's not mentioned in the story itself, how many of the dwarves we've coma along could be women? Just thinking about all dwarves in Tolkien's books... Well, seriously, probably no one, because there aren't very much female main characters in Tolkien's books and those dwarves mentioned are usually kings or great warriors and not many of Tolkien's women are "warheros" (except Éowyn and so on...).

So the question I thought about: The Seven Fathers of the Dwarves. Some of them were women? Dwarves are, in my opinion, very patriarchaic (?) people. So some of their most highly regarded ancestors being women doesn't sound very smart. But some of them, at least one, had to be women/woman, because otherwise the dwarves would have died to extinction, because men can't reproduce without women. Any ideas about this?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

So the question I thought about: The Seven Fathers of the Dwarves. Some of them were women? Dwarves are, in my opinion, very patriarchaic (?) people. So some of their most highly regarded ancestors being women doesn't sound very smart. But some of them, at least one, had to be women/woman, because otherwise the dwarves would have died to extinction, because men can't reproduce without women. Any ideas about this?

If I recall correctly, Tolkien's final opinion on the subject was that in addition to the Seven Fathers, there were also Six Mothers, who were laid together with one of the Seven Fathers, except for the Eldest, Durin. Durin later ended up wedding one of the progeny of the other Six Fathers.

[Thinlómien]

That sounds correct to me, though I haven't ever heard about it.

Originally Posted by Formendacil

If I recall correctly, Tolkien's final opinion on the subject was that in addition to the Seven Fathers, there were also Six Mothers, who were laid together with one of the Seven Fathers, except for the Eldest, Durin. Durin later ended up wedding one of the progeny of the other Six Fathers.

i find this kind of odd since it is written that durin woke upp long before all the other dwarves

[Bêthberry]

Hmmm. What might have inspired or prompted Tolkien to imagine or create bearded dwarven women?

Was he conceiving of some kind of sexual boundary shifting? Both the Ents and the Dwarves apparently as races 'die out' and both have female members who are somehow beyond the pale of female norms. The entwives are said to prefer too much control or power over the natural world. Dwarven women with their beards are indistinguishable from dwarven males and few in number.

And if this is the case, does the disappearance of the race suggest a comment on this boundary shifting?

Or is Tolkien merely drawing upon old legends to populate his race? Why did Terry Pratchett give his female dwarves beards--a nod to Tolkien? This appears to be a feature of fantasy.

What's with the cultural meaning of hair in Middle-earth?

See also Bearded Women in Wikipedia

[davem]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

What's with the cultural meaning of hair in Middle-earth?

We did get into that (partly) here

[A_Brandybuck]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Hmmm. What might have inspired or prompted Tolkien to imagine or create bearded dwarven women?

Maybe he wanted to express the strange creation of the Dwarves by Aule. The Dwarves didn't come normally into being like Elves and Men, who were created by Ilúvatar. The Dwarves were made in a revolutionary way against the 'law' of Ilúvatar. Although Ilúvatar adopted them. But he didn't create them. Aule created them, because he couldn't wait for the Coming of the Children of Ilúvatar. But he created them straight from his memory of the vision, which was not very clear.
Maybe Aule couldn't remember this little detail, that male and female differ in the face. Consequently he gave both a beard.

In every case I have the meaning, that Tolkien wanted to express that Dwarves are different from the other Children of Ilúvatar. And this theory fits well with the reasons of Aule creating the Dwarves (and his lacking memory of the vision.)