Do Balrogs Have Wings?

[HerenIstarion]

Originally Posted by Aiwnedil

Yes, but if "Balrog" is the cognate of "Valarauko" then the "Bal" comes not from NGWAL- but from BAL-

Probably. I suppose you're right, but it still does not eliminate the possibility that the Sindarin word may be simple blend of both stems (like to the Orthank, or Galad[h]riel connotations)

Thanks for the link - I enjoyed evening of remembrance, re-reading that 'clash of civilizations' there . In case we move or update again, and the link is lost (as most of my linking of yore was), I repeat it here with the title and author:

Bye bye Balrogs by jallanite is the place Aiwendil invited us to visit

cheers

[narfforc]

I flew down the motorway last month, the policeman that stopped me didnt care if I was a shadow or not, he still booked me.

[The Saucepan Man]

Just before he stopped you, did you catch sight of something bright in your rear-view mirror like flashing headlights?

[narfforc]

Funny you say that, yes, like a red and blue thingy and headlights like bolts of lightning. No we shouldnt joke Saucepanman, this is serious. I am old enough to remember over 35 years of this argument, and all we ever achieve is gain new recruits to either side of the fence, rarely will anyone change their mind. To think this started 50yrs ago, over two sentences in LotR. My own personal view(And there is no basis for this), Is that like most of Tolkiens creations, no two were the same. This has led to speculation that, like most Maiar, they fell into different classes ie the most powerful being Gothmog, could one class have wings and another not, who knows.

I don't know if this has been said before, but it's my reason for thinking that they don't have wings:

Lúthien was able to see Gondolin from the air after their rescue from Thangorodrim. Okay, Ancalagon was the first of the winged dragons, and he didn't show up till the War of Wrath. So... if there was some sort of creature who was really capable of long distance flight like the eagles, couldn't Morgoth have used them to find Gondolin? Especially after Hurín brilliantly half gave the location away?

[Neithan]

Morgoth had flying creatures (such as the vampires), but I believe it was the Eagles who kept them away from Gondolin.

[HerenIstarion]

To think this started 50yrs ago

Think Gulliver. And eggs...

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

It's "Demon of Might", not "Demon of Flight".

I think it's about time to remind everybody that this is;

"DO BALROGS HAVE WINGS?"

Not;

"CAN BALROGS FLY?"

I realize to some people the questions may go hand in hand, but the fact is, plenty of pro-wingers think that they could have had them, even if they were non-working, and not be able to fly. Others believe they may have been able to fly, even without wings.

Superman could fly, and he didn't have wings. Maybe Jean Grey from X-Men is a better example, since she used her mental power to do it, which is more 'Maiar' spirit-like.

And to further the superhero talk ... "Demon of Might" in no way gives me the sense of wings, flying or what not. A demon is not a devil, or an angel. And Demon of Might sounds more like the Incredible Hulk to me.

But then, once again, they couldn't fly. At least not in the conventional sense. Otherwise they wouldn't be falling to their deaths all the time.

As for the 'they're Maiar, they can do anything they want' nonsense ... no way. Just like Gandalf, they were stuck with the bodies given to them, they can't just wrench their fea away from their hroa like that. They have to die. Sauron couldn't even render himself noncorporeal at will when he was a shapeshifter, he was still stuck switching from one body to the next.

Although there is this possibility (which supports John Howe's paintings to some degree). Balrogs are more chimeric creature than spirit monster, and when the Chamber of Mazarbul collapsed on it, it broke his wings, rendering him flightless.

That's THIN.

None of this flight nonsense.

Hospital buildings have wings ... it just refers to something branching off of the original object. In this case, shadow.

There's 20 different definitions in the dictionary for the word wing. I selected a few;
1. One of a pair of movable organs for flying.
5. An ARM of a human.
7. Something that resembles a wing in appearance or position relative to a
main body.
10. The fender of a car.
12. Either of the projections on the back of a wing chair.
14. A structure attached to and connected to a main building.
16. A group affiliated with a larger organization.
20. An emblem indicating a qualified pilot.

Now, looking at the non-bird / bat wing definitions;

Wings have a very common theme; they are always referring to (in the cases of 7, 10, 12, 14, or 16) outlying parts of a central object. In the case of 7, it fits the Balrog perfectly - shadows and smoke surrounding a 'shape like a man but greater' really fit the bill. But those five definitions give the idea of something that comes along with the main object, but isn't quite the main object.

And on that note, 20. provides a unique notion; a pilot, when he becomes a pilot, gets his metal wings (yes, a pin). The Balrogs, when they became servants of Morgoth, were wrapped in shadow. They got their 'wings', once again the wings are nothing but shadow, even if this time it's a little more metaphorical than 'the wings are made of shadow, but shaped like wings'. Yeah, that's thin too.

I mean ... Gandalf screamed "fly you fools!" at the Fellowship, knowing full well that none of them had wings.

BUT TOLKIEN USED THE WORD "FLY"! THE FELLOWSHIP MUST HAVE HAD WINGS!

See, to me ... that would be the same argument.

Winged; to move on, or as if on wings. To fly. Swift.

The whole thing comes down to Mercury, of Roman myth, who "had wings on his feet" and was the fastest of all the gods.

That part of it is total simile.

That's why he called Aragorn "Wingfoot". Going REALLY FAST. I imagine Balrogs, having a great deal longer legs than humans (if they stood around fifteen feet tall, their legs would be roughly nine feet long), could run INCREDIBLY fast. Much faster than Ents. Many miles an hour faster than Ents. These long legs and the great amounts of muscle they had (judging from the word 'might') would likely enable them to jump INCREDIBLY HIGH as well. Over hill tops? Definitely. Has anyone read the Incredible Hulk, or seen the somewhat horrible movie? Imagine seven black creatures surrounded by shadow doing that, and heading in your direction.

It would look like a thunderstorm, and the echoing boom of their landing, smashing through trees, and so forth, would make all the hills echo.

And I still stand on the point that there's no way of knowing whether they had wings or not, because every instance of the word's use was simile, the lighting in Khazad Dum was little to none because of the Balrog, and the argument has never actually been settled.

[the guy who be short]

What it was could not be seen: it was a great shadow, in the middle of which was
a dark form, of man-shape maybe, yet greater.

Men don't have wings.