...and Gandalf suddenly had a brilliant idea of how to win the war. - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

drigel · 02-02-2005, 08:21 AM

Ah, Lalwendë bringing up that quote does reveal some elvish psychological conditions doesnt it?

Whether or not the author intended the romantic relationship to be a factor for Celebrimbor, I wonder if grief that all elves felt ever and anon, is the underlying theme. Grief of the loss of the blessed days. Grief that is ever present for the firstborn, who by being first, realizes what has been lost, and what is going to be lost, until All is lost. Thats mighty powerfull stuff. Its also incongruent with the reality of ME - but its nature isnt evil at all is it? Only in Valimar does time truly stand still. Enter Annatar into that situation, and suddenly your work of love and grief becomes tied to something very much evil. What a wonderfully simple way to explain certain (ultimately human) complexities.

Sophia - I love the tie in to the Oath as well - never considered that. What a legacy!

excellent insights here folks! keeps me coming back again and again....

SPM I agree, but on Phantom's line of thought, isnt ME seen through the eyes of one man who is looking through the eyes of a hobbit? AH HAH - my treastice is playing out

Mabye the only way we could understand ME's message to us today is through the eyes of it's most meekest of players.... seriously though my personal rebellion would say that, while fortune has allowed the author to show us via literature the ME condition, Im not sure its the only vision.

**The Saucepan Man** · 02-02-2005, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drigel

... seriously though my personal rebellion would say that, while fortune has allowed the author to show us via literature the ME condition, Im not sure its the only vision.

Fair enough, although that is largely dependent on one's personal spiritual beliefs. Surely we can all agree, however, that there are no situations in real life (on a physical - as opposed to metaphysical - level at least) comparable to the struggle with Sauron, a being of pure evil. Real life situations are much more akin to the situations portrayed in connection with the likes of Gollum (as Lalwendë points out) and Boromir.

Kuruharan · 02-02-2005, 09:55 AM

Quote:

posted by Sophia:
Even though one could use them (or attempt to use them) in a way contrary to the original intent, the power of their maker is still resident in them, and his intentions were evil.

This is a point of consideration. I'm not sure that the West's use of orcs would really have been against the intent of their maker. The West would be using the orcs for the purposes of destruction, which was really all that Melkor was interested in.

Of course, this would have been against the interests of their current master but not against the original intent of their maker.

drigel · 02-02-2005, 10:09 AM

concurrence SPM
The Light back then was much less splintered in this time/place/imagination.

02-02-2005, 08:21 AM	#1
drigel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: commonplace city Posts: 518	blessed days Ah, Lalwendë bringing up that quote does reveal some elvish psychological conditions doesnt it? Whether or not the author intended the romantic relationship to be a factor for Celebrimbor, I wonder if grief that all elves felt ever and anon, is the underlying theme. Grief of the loss of the blessed days. Grief that is ever present for the firstborn, who by being first, realizes what has been lost, and what is going to be lost, until All is lost. Thats mighty powerfull stuff. Its also incongruent with the reality of ME - but its nature isnt evil at all is it? Only in Valimar does time truly stand still. Enter Annatar into that situation, and suddenly your work of love and grief becomes tied to something very much evil. What a wonderfully simple way to explain certain (ultimately human) complexities. Sophia - I love the tie in to the Oath as well - never considered that. What a legacy! excellent insights here folks! keeps me coming back again and again.... SPM I agree, but on Phantom's line of thought, isnt ME seen through the eyes of one man who is looking through the eyes of a hobbit? AH HAH - my treastice is playing out Mabye the only way we could understand ME's message to us today is through the eyes of it's most meekest of players.... seriously though my personal rebellion would say that, while fortune has allowed the author to show us via literature the ME condition, Im not sure its the only vision. Last edited by drigel; 02-02-2005 at 08:31 AM.

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02-02-2005, 10:09 AM	#4
drigel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: commonplace city Posts: 518	concurrence SPM The Light back then was much less splintered in this time/place/imagination.