Battles of the late Third Age

[Saurreg]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

That is a fairly good source for extrapolation. My source for believing the Gondorians were less specialized in their military is the high quality of the Knights of Dol Amroth.

Within a well trained and lavishly equiped army, there are bound to be certain units that are more elite. The First, Second, tenth and fourteenth legion of the Imperial Roman Army, the Imperial Guards of the Grande Armee and the winged hussaria of the Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth armies are such examples. But that does not mean that the rest of the army are of low quality or less specialised.

In the Battle of Five Armies the elven spearmen did both to some extent.

I don't think that proves anything about their equipment. Attacking too soon and without support is a recipe for getting cut all to pieces no matter how heavily armed your troops.

However, I do have vague recollections of some mention being made that the Wood elves were "lighter" armed than other folk. Although who they were being compared to I can't remember. I also can't remember where the reference is, so maybe I just imagined it.

I will take your word on the deeds of the elven spearmen though I still reserve significant doubt.

When I think about the elves getting annihilated soon after attacking, I question their ability to deliver and withstand shock. Those two attributes above all seperate heavy infantry from light infantry. The fact that the elves were not even able to fight an ordered withdrawal from the battle gives doubt to their cohesiveness and staying power.

I would suspect that due to the lack of shock, the elves were unable to make an impression on the enemy front and dashed themselves to pieces. With poor cohesion and still numbed by the unsucessful attack, the elves soon found themselves overwhelmed and indeed overran by the shock delivered by the enemy.

You did not imagine that part about the lightly armored wood elves. I have read it somewhere before.

The dwarves would also have been much stronger and much better armed. These would both have been true even in the days of the "height" of Nùmenórian power. (Note the clever pun, har har )

If the dwarves are not heavy infantry, then what are they?

I'm also not clear that the axe-men-orcs were disadvantaged in height, though they likely were in quality of armor.

I never claimed that the dwarves had no heavy infantry. In my post I typed,

Originally Posted by Saurreg

You might classify dwarves as heavy infantry if you must.

I simply stated that if you, Kuruharan wished to state that dwarves had heavy infantry, then feel free to do so.

Flexibility is the key word I was looking into here. The dwarves might have been better armored, but the Gondorians with their reach and stride would make for more flexible soldiers, giving their commanders better options. For example if a quick violent dash is needed, the greater strides of the towering Dunedain would give them an advantage over dwarves. Similarly when there is a need to cross waters chest high to the Dunedain height, no bridges need to be put up if the rocks in the bed offer traction and the flow not to swift. Equally important is the climbing of siege ladders and such other equipment swiftly.

As for the the hybrid berserkers, I should think that their main advantage was their frenzied state of mind in battle. They can deliver shock, but how well can they withstand shock and also offer flexibility?

Yes, but wasn't he using his own horse archers by that point? However, you do point out something I forgot to mention. By some monumental oversight I left out the staggeringly important fact that I meant a stirruped well-armed horse archer.

Imagine me making an oversight like that.

No he did not. At that point of time he was pursuing the renegade Bessus and securing the north eastern frontier of his newly won empire. As such what cavalry he had were still macedonian and grecian in nature. There were javelin-throwing cavalry but no horse archers at all. The Perisian Epigoni was still in an embryonic stage.