If they still had Gandalf...

[wilwarin538]

You want other oppinions well.... I tried, but my computer froze and my nice long paragraph of an oppinion was lost. So know I must begin again.

I think everything would be very messed up if they still had Gandalf. Mostly bacause of Merry and Pipin's kidnapping. I believe Gandalf would have stopped it from happening, So Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli would have probably gone to Gondor with Boro(who Gandalf saved) and Merry and Pippin would never have seen Treebeard, te Ents wouldn't have gotten involved, most likely Gandalf woudn't have had the power to over power Saruman and Theoden would have gotten hes entire country defeated. All would have been lost.

But that might just be me.

~*Wilwa*~

P.S. Oh yes, and just imagine what kind of havic the Balrog(winged of course ) would have caused if Gandalf hadn't defeated him.

[Glirdan]

YAYAYAYAY!!!!!!!! OTHER PEOPLE JOINED!!!!!!!! Very nice opion Wilwa (laugh out loud) I really like your opinion AND your probably right.

Glirdy
P.S. Need your help tomorow with homework.

[AragornII]

Ah, wilwarin538, who says the Balrog follows them out? He might just give up when they leave the mountain. Also, that doorway that they exit out of looked pretty small, but that can be fixed easily, especially by a Balrog Actually, come to think of it, that would be fairly interesting. But I think that alatar disussed that earlier in the thread. Good point though .

[alatar]

Originally Posted by AragornII

Ah, wilwarin538, who says the Balrog follows them out? He might just give up when they leave the mountain. Also, that doorway that they exit out of looked pretty small, but that can be fixed easily, especially by a Balrog Actually, come to think of it, that would be fairly interesting. But I think that alatar disussed that earlier in the thread. Good point though .

I actually argued in another post that the Balrog would have pursued the FOTR out of Moria - why would it have stopped? Sunlight would not have hindered it, and as Gandalf (another Maia) torqued him off, I think that the Balrog would have wanted to finish the job - he could have stopped pursuing Gandalf after they brought down Balin's Tomb, but did not.

[Glirdan]

All of your points are valid and very true. But I'd have to say that the Balrog would probably have followed them into Lorien where Gandalf would have had the aid of Galadriel who holds Nenya. So there would have been two elven rings of power, but Lorien would have been scorched to the ground.

[wilwarin538]

Well thats a little depressing Glirdy. I didn't actually mean that the Balrog followed them out just that he may have done something later on. But now that I think of it why would he have stopped??? The Balrog didn't look like the type to give up because the fellowship crossed a little bridge.

[AragornII]

And what would the Balrog done later on? It's not like people went to Moria after Sauron fell (or did they?), and the only reason the Balrog was even out was because the Fellowship went through Moria. Do you think that the Balrog would have died when the Ring was destroyed? I would think not, since Balrogs were created before the Ring was.
Speaking of Balrogs, have you ever felt that it was Frodo's fault that Gandalf fell? I mean, if Frodo hadn't chosen to go to Moria when they were on Caradhras, then Gandlaf would still be there. That's just something I thought about once .

[Lolidir]

it was Frodo's choice but at the same time he is still human. he was freezing on Caradhras and in all that snow, and sicnce it was that or Moria he chose what he thought better than freezing. he didnt know the danger of Moria and Gandalf didnt tell him so with his knowledge and the present situation he made the best choice he could.

my thought is that its Pippin fault that the Balrog and the Goblins were "awakened" so to speak. if he hadnt knocked the head down the well then all that might not have happened. so if Pippin hadnt done that then no Goblins and no Balrog then maybe they could have escaped Moria with out to much of a hastle. but as said before Tolkien wrote the book and everything happened for a reason. to ask the what if question make us think, but we will never know.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by AragornII

And what would the Balrog done later on? It's not like people went to Moria after Sauron fell (or did they?), and the only reason the Balrog was even out was because the Fellowship went through Moria.

Don't think so. The Balrog was awake during the Battle of Nanduhirion (Third Age). Also, I would assume that the Balrog may have helped destroy Balin's party. IMO the Balrog was again awake as Sauron was growing in power again, and was putting out the call to all things evil.

Speaking of Balrogs, have you ever felt that it was Frodo's fault that Gandalf fell? I mean, if Frodo hadn't chosen to go to Moria when they were on Caradhras, then Gandlaf would still be there. That's just something I thought about once .

Good thought. However, I think that in the books it's Gandalf who from the very first is the proponent for going through Moria. He follows Aragorn's lead to Caradhras, and when they are defeated by the mountain, Gandalf starts leading them to Moria. After the battle with the wolves, everyone's opinion regarding the Mines begins to change, as they would rather take a chance with the orcs that may or may not exist than with the wolves/wargs that are hunting them.

Aragorn warns Gandalf regarding his personal fate, yet Gandalf still chooses to go. Surely Frodo feels some guilt though.

Originally Posted by Lolidir

my thought is that its Pippin fault

In a way it was - Pippin surely felt responsible, and maybe this helped him 'grow up' a little - but on the other hand, Gandalf needed to fall, and so maybe if Pippin did not start things going then someone else would have had to pull the trigger, so to speak.