Battles of the late Third Age

[Kuruharan]

And if so, did Eomer act rashly and unwisely in committing them
against what he must have assumed was merely a raiding force of no great importance, and one that was fleeing Rohan

At the time it did not seem likely that they would ever have any other use.

And it was probably just the principle of the thing.

[Rumil]

Hi again,

Some interesting points here, on the Rohirrim charge up the knoll, I wonder if it was fairly rocky and scrubby, maybe allowing the cavalry to charge through rather than into the orcs in a dispersed manner rather than a mighty collision?

I'd reckon that Eomer was correct in attacking the orcs once he found them. A relatively easy victory would have encouraged the riders, whereas shying away from combat would definitely have been frowned upon by his contemporaries. However, I guess there's an argument that he should really have been leading additional reinforcements to the second battle of the Isen at this time. I'd imagine that one of Grima's priorities would have been to keep Eomer's and Theodred's forces from uniting if at all possible, therefore the Worm's insincere criticism may have reflected the fruition of his own plans!

Naturally the Marshal's Eored would have been picked troops and better equipped and trained than many of the Rohirrim, though HoME implies that the majority were at least adequately equipped. 'Nearly 10,000 fully equipped and provisioned riders' or similar.

On the pikemen, I find myself drawn to comparisons with medieval Scottish schiltrons. A relatively poorly financed infantry force having to deal with arrogant knights from a bordering country maybe?

[Saurreg]

Rumil, are you in anyway an aficionado on cavalries?

Battlefield Comment

If the hillock was close to the Entwash and carefully selected by Eomer as the place to herd the orcs onto, then I would think that the Marshal of the Mark had decided on a cavalry charge as his coup de grâce already when he intercepted the enemy. For the cavalry charge to be effective, the cavalry commander must prevent his target from shifting because once committed, the impetuosity and inertia of the charge would make a quick change in direction impossible. If the enemy is massed in a large group of several thousand bodies or so, its own bulk and inherent rigidity would prevent it from dispersing rapidly to avoid the incoming shock. But in this case there are only 200 hundred or so orcs - very easy for them to scatter in all directions and render the cavalry charge impact void. Something was needed to helm them together, to prevent them from avoiding the horses and I belief the Entwash was that barrier.

Any cavalry vs. infantry engagement is more of a contest of wills than brute melee and shock is the key. An for every infantryman, nothing is more terrifying than facing a cavalry charge with a wall behind his back to prevent him from escaping. Once the pressure exceeds the infantry's threshold of tolerance, the will to fight snaps and the unit routs.

I hereby submit that Tolkien had the "anvil and hammer" effect in mind when he wrote of the battle. Eomer and his eored was the hammer while the Entwash was the hammer. Provided that the Entwash was in close proximity to the hillock i.e (<100m distance).

Charge Comment

I tend to believe that the Rohirrim Cavalry charged pass the gaps between the orcs as opposite to through them literally, crushing all beneath hoof, simply because as stated by Fuller and Keegan, NO heavy cavalry had in the course of history from antiquity to the Great War ever done so.

As mentioned, anti-cavalry warfare was essentially a psychological duel. Units that panick, break and scatter would be those that cavalry "overrun" After the Napoleonic Wars had ended, the British Army conducted a study and discovered that the only time that a resolute square of infantry was broken by cavalry alone, was when the dead and out of control carcass of a charger crashed into it and nearby horsemen immediately exploited the gap created. In no instance during the countless breathtaking cavalry charges that took place did cavalry mow on and flatten all before it through sheer momentum and weight. Not even during the mass cavalry charge at Eylau where, it is now more or less accepted that the Russians rout and parted ranks when the French heavies reached them. Makes sense because it would have been impossible for Murat and company to wheel around and charge back to the French lines had they bloodied and squashed their way through the entire Russian depth in two feet of loose snow.

Georges Blond, the premier French Historian on the Grande Armee placed the average cavalry charge at only 18km/hr and at Eylau due to bad weather and ground conditions, it was even less. That meant that despite mass, the French cavalry lacked the momentum to physically overrun the enemy.

Another way to decide if a cavalry did literally squash all in its way underhoof is by counting the cavalries casualties. The logic is that no matter how fast and heavy, the cavalry is bound to suffer heavily if it keeps crashing into things constantly. Throughout his entire Persian Campaign, Alexander's Companion Cavalry suffered less than 10% casualties as compared to his other arms and at the Battle of Patay, La Hire and Poton de Xantrailles lost only an estimated five men in their charge through English ranks (the English lost 2000 over men).

Another thing to note is that unless a rider delibrately directs his mount towards an obstacle, both rider and horse tend to avoid obstacles instinctively and subconsciously.

[Rumil]

Hi Saurreg,

I must say I agree pretty much completely with your analysis of cavalry combat here. I nearly put in a sentence after the 'mighty collision' comment to emphasise that this almost never happened historically, but your post explained things a lot better!

I guess the only minor differences are that I'd credit the watchfire tactic of Eomer with 'penning in' the orcs though I'd agree that the reason the orcs could not flee further East was the location of the Entwash. I do think that if the orcs had scattered on the plains the Rohirrim would easily have been able to chase them down individually, however if they had managed to reach the forest, the riders would not have been able to pursue them effectively. Also maybe that cavalry of earlier times appears more effective against some infantry, but that really depends on the relative training and morale of both sides, which becomes more difficult to analyse as you go back in history.

I guess its really quite difficult for us to imagine precisely what went on in cavalry combat. I've seen some accounts of opposing units opening ranks and charging through one-another and some of the units reining-in, slowing down and fighting 'hoof-to-hoof', but often one side would break and run before the 'impact' occurred.

Anyway I must admit that the charge of the Rohirrim at the Pelennor Fields is one of my favourite bits of the books!

[Saurreg]

Time for a new discussion?

[Rumil]

erm, yeah, soon, honest!

Cheers,

Rumil

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Bump???

What's next, Helm's Deep?