Maia of music, hide no longer!

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Evisse the Blue

This topic puzzles me much...I like everyone's ideas, but for me the similarity between the Beren/Luthien/Morgoth trio and the Raoul/Christine/Phantom trio is only superficial. The relationship between them is totally different. Christine was somewhat attracted to the Phantom, and the Phantom, despite being evil, had some kind of appeal. Morgoth on the other hand didn't, and I think no one will contradict me on that.

Actually, I would...

Morgoth, at the time of Luthien and Beren, is no longer in the (likely) gorgeous physical form he presented in Valinor, but his form is that of the dark master of Utumno, and although this may not be a beautiful form as such, it was certainly terrible, and probably grand.

A grandly terrible figure.

However, Morgoth's physical form isn't the point I intended to make. While I would agree that there was certainly no attraction for Luthien, as there is/was for Christine, I think you are wrong in saying the Morgoth had no appeal. For the right (or wrong) person, Morgoth's appeal would be immense. And I'm not just talking about orks here.

Morgoth is evil incarnate, the godfather of everything evil. And a great part about evil is its attraction. Evil IS attractive. And Morgoth was also powerful. VERY powerful. At this time, he can be said to be the most powerful being in middle-earth. And the Valar had abandoned that land.

Therefore, it is hardly inconcievable that Morgoth, had he wanted, could have attracted quite a few people. Since this is a Christine/Luthien comparisom, just look at women in general. Is it really that hard to imagine women being attracted to him? Who wouldn't want to be the mistress- maybe even the wife- of the King of Middle-earth? I admit that, like Luthien, many would not, but I think that there are some, even among the Eldar, who would have leapt at such an opportunity, had it been presented.

There you have it: in my opinion, Morgoth was not lacking in attractive attributes (power and evil), it was simply that he didn't deign to tempt any old person with them. In which he is similar once again to the Phantom, who didn't select any old person to be his vehicle of glory. The difference is that where Christine was beguiled, Luthien merely played along for a very short while, while beguiling him.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Therefore, it is hardly inconcievable that Morgoth, had he wanted, could have attracted quite a few people. Since this is a Christine/Luthien comparisom, just look at women in general. Is it really that hard to imagine women being attracted to him? Who wouldn't want to be the mistress- maybe even the wife- of the King of Middle-earth? I admit that, like Luthien, many would not, but I think that there are some, even among the Eldar, who would have leapt at such an opportunity, had it been presented.

There you have it: in my opinion, Morgoth was not lacking in attractive attributes (power and evil), it was simply that he didn't deign to tempt any old person with them. In which he is similar once again to the Phantom, who didn't select any old person to be his vehicle of glory. The difference is that where Christine was beguiled, Luthien merely played along for a very short while, while beguiling him.

Looking at it from Morgoth's perspective: why shouldn't Luthien want him? ...the vala who has it all...

Luthien's reaction to Morgoth is admittedly quite different from Christine's reaction to the Phantom-- at first; and at the end; but in the middle-- Christine begins to be horrified "My God, who is this man who hunts to kill?" -- by the side of the Phantom that will allow nothing between him and his desires. While the phantom displays insecurity, and Morgoth does not, I wonder if there was some hidden there. "Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown."

Luthien's disinterest in Morgoth is significant. But just as the Phantom had something Christine wanted (music), Morgoth has something Luthien wants-- that dratted Silmaril.

I was also struck this morning by how much of the two stories take place underground, in a labyrinthine setting: Utumno versus the Paris Opera House...