gondors armies vs. rohans

[Lolidir]

Originally Posted by Lolidir

In Gondor there was Gandalf, but he was no Aragorn. The people had lived to long in fear and no one to lead them. No matter what you say Gandalf was no king, he was no Aragorn. Even if he did Gondor still didnt have Denethor behind it, and too have someone come in and try to do good without the help of the ruler just doesnt work as well as if you have both working for good as Aragor and Theoden did.

i forgot about Gandalf uniting the peoples of ME. My point was that the people didnt have a leader that they knew, and were really comfortable with. If Aragorn had arrived before the battle and became king and established an ansolute power and given the people a sence of that leadersip, they might have been more willing to fight. Even though Gandalf was a famous wizard (Istari) and everyone knew who he was, they didnt know him. He came in, out of no where and tried to take over. While he was better than Denethor, i just dont think that they would have just left Denethor and followed Gandalf, especially when he was so openly opposing Gandalf.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Gandalf was as much as a capable leader as Aragorn, if not better.

This is true, but every leader has to have time to gain the trust and respect of the followers. If someone came into your work, school, or what ever and just took over, they might be the better leader, but only time will let you see that. And as we know time was not on Gondor's side.

[Boromir88]

This is true, but every leader has to have time to gain the trust and respect of the followers. If someone came into your work, school, or what ever and just took over, they might be the better leader, but only time will let you see that. And as we know time was not on Gondor's side.

Good point

If Aragorn had arrived before the battle and became king and established an ansolute power and given the people a sence of that leadersip, they might have been more willing to fight. Even though Gandalf was a famous wizard (Istari) and everyone knew who he was, they didnt know him. He came in, out of no where and tried to take over.

The thing I don't understand, and perhaps you could explain a little better, is how would the Gondorians accept Aragorn and not Gandalf? Gandalf did arrive out of nowhere, and perhaps they didn't quite trust him. But how would it be different if Aragorn arrived out of nowhere? He wasn't well known in Gondor either. Also, certainly Denethor wouldn't allow Aragorn to barge in and claim the throne without starting resistance. And considering that they are still willing to listen to him when he says "burn my son and me," I would think Aragorn would have a tough time.

[Lolidir]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

But how would it be different if Aragorn arrived out of nowhere? He wasn't well known in Gondor either.

This is a good point. I guess my reasoning for this is the fact that Aragorn was the rightful King and ruler of Gondor, as where Gandalf wasn't. He was just someone who had power and took control. Aragorn would have had to have been listened to, in some sort of way for he was the king. I am thinking that maybe it would encourage the people to see their bad leader overthrown by the rightful good one.

But then again the people didn't know him any better, if not less than Gandalf. And if you wanted to you could bring in the fact that every one reacts differently to a different situation. But the best thing I can think of is today's military. The military today is mostly Bush supporters. (I dont mean to offend any one on their political parties it's just an example) They fight because they love their country and they love their leader. I am sure that in those times it was the same thing. The people may have been forced to fight, but they would fight better for a leader they loved and respected.

[Boromir88]

This is a good point. I guess my reasoning for this is the fact that Aragorn was the rightful King and ruler of Gondor, as where Gandalf wasn't.

Very true, and within the movies I think this works. Denethor is portrayed a lot worse and it seems like nobody cares that Gandalf smacks around the Steward, maybe they were just tired of the man...

An important point though that has been discussed before, as seen in Arvedui's claim and Aragorn's decisions, that it takes more than "right" to become King. One must have the support of the people, in which it seemed Aragorn did. The movies I think show this a little differently, that they were just tired of Denethor and wanted the true King. Where the books deal with it in a bit different way, Aragorn must prove himself to the people, (being victorious at the Morannon) to get the support of Gondor.

[Lolidir]

You are right when you say that the way that things are portrayed is different between the books and movie.

Actually i think its covered pretty nicely in Aragorn's decisions from what I read. In the movie they leave out that whole part with Imrahil and the House of Healing. I think that part really helped gain the respect and trust of the people. Through that whole time between the battle at Pelennor Fields and the time when they march on the Black Gate Aragorn refuses to enter the city as the king. He is recognized as the Captain of the Dunedain of Arnor for the time being and remains in a tent outside the city. So when they (Aragorn, Gandalf, Imrahil, Eomer) lead the armies against the Black Gate and they are victorious, and he is finally revealed to them as Aragorn, the rightful king, they realize that this guy that they trusted in battle, as a result of his skill, is going to be their king. So by the time he actually take the thrown the people know that he can be a leader because of how he lead them to victory over Sauron, and then they are more willing to accept him.

I asked and we can continue to compare this to the books as long as it doesnt turn into just a book discussion.

[Imrahil]

It did seem that Rohan's army was vastly superior in size and skill than that of Gondor...Maybe PJ made it that way to emphasize that the power and grandeur of Gondor had slipped from what it had been.

I agree.
Well i like Rohan a lot better than gondor though but its seems strange that Rohans army should outnumber Gondors.
But i believe the Rohirrim are one of the most skilled armies in middle earth.
well thats my opinion though.