God, I'm not cut out to be a genealogist...

[Yeade]

Whew! The family tree's been updated with the information in the thread Maédhros was kind enough to point out for me and divided into three roughly equal sections for the site. I've also added the birth dates of Elendil and all his kingly descendants, corrected Aragorn's dates so that he's not living in the Second Age, put the Lords of Andúnië in order, and fixed the omission of dates for Elrond's children and Gilraen. I'd somehow missed those mistakes the last three or something times I corrected the tree; apparently my brain melts into gray mush halfway down the chart...

At any rate, in the course of all these corrections, I felt perhaps I'd given everyone the wrong impression of my access to and knowledge of Tolkien's works. I read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings in 3rd grade... and just recently read the latter a second time. I read The Silmarillion sometime in middle school--once--and never read it again (though I plan to do so over the summer). Until I came to these boards, I'd never even heard of The History of Middle-Earth! The family tree was mainly put together by clicking through all the relevant links at The Encyclopedia of Arda and The Encyclopedia of Middle-earth. Thus, in the first version, I didn't have any dates--I just didn't know many--the Three Houses of the Edain grew and grew, and there were many mistakes in the genealogies of the Eldar.

I've been persistently annoying people here because I know the online resources aren't complete (or even accurate in some cases), but I'm too broke to buy the books I need and don't have access to through libraries. I don't have the knowledge to spot errors.

So, Maédhros, when you suggested I brush up on "The Shibboleth of Fëanor," I had no idea what you were talking about. I figured I'd attempt to find it myself before I pestered you, and eventually I realized it was in HOME. I browsed the two libraries I had easy access to and came up with HOME Volumes IX, XI, and XII. Thankfully, "The Shibboleth" is in HOME 12, along with the handy "The Heirs of Elendil," which I cross-referenced with what I had and took all those neat birth dates for this latest version from. I'm still perusing "The Shibboleth," but expect there'll be more corrections. I hope also to read "The History of the Akallabêth," then clear up, once and for all, the Three Houses of the Edain from the information in HOME 11. Hell, I think I'm probably going to end up reading the index.

The other volumes of HOME aren't readily available to me... Could anyone tell me what other volumes would be useful? So I have a clue as to which ones I should track down? If it's not too much trouble? Or any other material I should reference, really. For one, I should probably read The Akallabêth and check the Númenórean line, but I'm not entirely sure where that is... Is there truly nothing on the royal lines of Cardolan and Rhudaur? I would be thankful for any pointers.

[Yeade]

Finished "The Shibboleth of Fëanor" and read again "The Heirs of Elendil." Made a number of minor corrections.

On lotr-a.bmp:
Írimë's name corrected from Irímë
Fingon's daughter Erien (wrongly marked as a son), son Finbor, and grandchildren erased as rejected by Tolkien in later genealogies
Artanaro (which should be Artanáro) Gil-galad erased as another name for Ereinion Gil-galad
Ereinion Gil-galad finally, finally placed as son of Orodreth, brother of Finduilas

On lotr-b.bmp:
Ornendil died III 1446, nine years after father Eldacar was deposed
Fíriel born III 1896

On lotr-c.bmp:
Valandil's reign amended from 247 to 239 years (III 10-249)
Beleg's date of death changed from III 1026 to 1029; accordingly he ruled for 83, not 80, years
Mallor's reign, which follows, lasted 81 years instead of 84
Arvedui ruled 11 years, not 10
Fíriel born III 1896
Dírhael descended from Aranarth through Arathorn I

Also of note, on lotr-a.bmp:

Indis is shown as the sister of Ingwë despite the fact that, in HOME 12, she "is said to have been the daughter of King Ingwë's sister." Apparently HOME 10 places her as I have. I don't know which of the two has more weight, but in the selfish interest to avoid shifting the entire tree from Indis on down to insert that extra generation, I didn't follow HOME 12. There's a bit of wiggle room, in that she is said to have been... Okay, yeah, I'm grasping for straws.

Faniel and Finrun Felageomor also remain on the tree largely because just thinking about the rearranging I have to do makes my head hurt and fingers itch. As I understand it, Faniel is in HOME 10, Finrun in HOME 4. I don't have access to either so, again, I can't say whether what I've done is acceptable.

I used a genealogic tree what i found on the web (the name of the creator was "Eril", maybe you can know who is he, i'm not in all this) and i reform it acording on what i found over the web, and when i (thought that) finished the work, i print. And now i'm doing a genealogic tree of the hobbits family, like Baggins, Gamgee, Took, Brandybuck and Bolger, Boffin, Proudfoot, etc.
I don't know if the names are trues of falses. I can't choose none of them because i don't have the book (only Silmarillion, Hobbit, and LOTR) but i do what i can. I don't remember so well, but, is not true that in the Silmarillion Ereinion Gil-Galad is the son of Fingon?
I have all the works in a 300 Kb zip (still on construction) but i don't where can i post it.

On the page http://www.annalsofarda.dk/Annals-of...rdoRhutext.htm is a table of the Kings of Arthedain, Cardolan and Rhuadaur... Are this men really kings of those kingdoms?


Well, this is all that i can write with my poor english. I expect it can help you.


Jorge Luis.

[the guy who be short]

First of all, welcome, and you've done a wonderful job!

With Celeborn being Sindar and Galadriel Noldor, how exactly did the two of them end up Lord and Lady of Lothlórien? Is that even allowed? I can't remember if there was anything on this in The Silmarillion. I kept confusing myself and thinking there's some connection between the Lórien Elves and Celeborn's relations because of similarities in the names: the Lórien Elves are also called the Galadhrim, and Celeborn married Galadriel, with Galadhon as father, Galathil as brother. Only then there's also Gil-galad. Now I see this is just an Elvish naming streak. :P Thanks for clearing that up.

The Lorien elves are called the Galadhrim, Galadh is Sindarin for Tree I believe, to they are the People of the Trees. However, Galadriel uses the stem Galad, meaning light in Quenya; I cannot remember but I think her name means Maiden of Light or some such thing. Gil-Galad again comes from Galad, Quenya for light, the name means Star-light. The similarity comes from the words Galadh and Galad in the two Elven languages being so similar. Hope this helps.

I also thought Ereinion Gil-Galad was the son of Fingon.

TGWBS

EDIT: I've just checked my copy of the Silm, Gil-galad is the son of Fingon in the latest version.
EDIT II: A minor note: Maiar and Vanyar are plurals (as are most Quenya words ending in "r"), the singular should be Maia and Vanya in lotr-a.bmp.
Again, congratulations on tackling so great a task.

This is an small screenshot of what i did (such like i say before the zip's size is around 300 Kb, and all the files 12 Mb). It doesn't have any kind of dates, only names. Like Yadie and the guy that did the table i used for the same purpose, i try to keep a certain color code.