Aragorn and Arwen: More than kissing?

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by alatar

It's possible that we are of the same generation, and most days it's the cliche of 'not the years but the miles.' Anyway, don't think that I see the scenes as more than they are due to being a parent (my oldest is into the 'no girls' stage of life), but possibly from being raised with cautious parents (and dating young women whose parents were the same) and having grown up in a part of the world in which everything takes place at least ten years after it happens elsewhere.

I think my own perspective must come from the fact that over the years I have always had many male friends and so would never have thought it odd to be in the company of men. To me, it seemed quite natural that Arwen and Aragorn could spend time alone and do little more than talk. Of course, they are a couple, and I think that's where some of the knowledge from the books comes in again. Tolkien made it clear that Elves tended to marry quite young (for an Elf at any rate) and have children young, so unless there was Elven contraception then it must also be assumed that they would abstain once their families were complete, or perhaps the 'urge' did not strike them (maybe once they had experienced nappies and howling etc. ).

But there I am again letting the books intrude on what the film portrays of this relationship...

Yet, in the films it was also made clear that Arwen was making an immeasurable sacrifice to give up her immortality to marry Aragorn. An intelligent viewer then might work out that to Arwen, this relationship would relatively speaking only last for what must have seemed mere 'weeks'. And so, it might be understandable that she would allow Aragorn to be as close to her as was possible before their marriage; she would after all want to enjoy his company as much as possible.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I think my own perspective must come from the fact that over the years I have always had many male friends and so would never have thought it odd to be in the company of men. To me, it seemed quite natural that Arwen and Aragorn could spend time alone and do little more than talk. Of course, they are a couple, and I think that's where some of the knowledge from the books comes in again.

Not growing up in a monastery, I also had female friends in my life (even roomed with the same - what was I thinking? ), but with few exceptions (belching the alphabet was more of a male friend thing) these were treated just like their counterparts. They were friends, and so appropriate boundaries naturally ensued.

Arwen and Aragorn, though friends, were obviously much more as demonstrated by the kiss on the bridge scene, and so more could be assumed.

Tolkien made it clear that Elves tended to marry quite young (for an Elf at any rate) and have children young, so unless there was Elven contraception then it must also be assumed that they would abstain once their families were complete, or perhaps the 'urge' did not strike them (maybe once they had experienced nappies and howling etc. ).

Having three little ones - one still in nappies, if I understand the word - I haven't the excess energy required to contemplate elvish physiology, gestation, fertility, etc and elf/man hybrids.

Yet, in the films it was also made clear that Arwen was making an immeasurable sacrifice to give up her immortality to marry Aragorn. An intelligent viewer then might work out that to Arwen, this relationship would relatively speaking only last for what must have seemed mere 'weeks'. And so, it might be understandable that she would allow Aragorn to be as close to her as was possible before their marriage; she would after all want to enjoy his company as much as possible.

That works for me, as again this couple is something special not seen every day in Middle Earth. And if we assume from what was presented in the movies that Elrond is prescient, and he and Arwen 'see' Eldarion, then it's pretty much a done deal anyway unless Arwen takes the boat or Sauron is victorious.

Was also thinking about Aragorn's behavior around Eowyn. Their time together was limited, he really wasn't chasing her, but to me he acted more appropriately.

[tar-ancalime]

Was also thinking about Aragorn's behavior around Eowyn. Their time together was limited, he really wasn't chasing her, but to me he acted more appropriately.

That's interesting, because Aragorn was also alone with Eowyn (ROTK EE, when he "tucks her in" and she tells him about her dream), and while watching this scene for the first time I actually thought it was odd, that the travel-stained (if battle-proven) stranger should be allowed into the room with the White Lady of Rohan while she is sleeping. And although he doesn't behave as tenderly towards Eowyn as he does towards Arwen, it's clear that Eowyn reads something into the attention he pays her.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by tar-ancalime

That's interesting, because Aragorn was also alone with Eowyn (ROTK EE, when he "tucks her in" and she tells him about her dream), and while watching this scene for the first time I actually thought it was odd, that the travel-stained (if battle-proven) stranger should be allowed into the room with the White Lady of Rohan while she is sleeping. And although he doesn't behave as tenderly towards Eowyn as he does towards Arwen, it's clear that Eowyn reads something into the attention he pays her.

Was it more brotherly? Or, because of their age/maturity difference, did he not see her as a possible mate/companion but as a little girl child? Not that he was ever considering 'unloving' Arwen.

And it was posted here (#30) regarding the strangeness of Eowyn's sleeping arrangement.

[Lalwendë]

About Aragorn being alone with Eowyn, I found that they presented her as leading a less 'sheltered' life than Arwen; she is seen serving drinks in a hall full of shouting drunken men immediately before the 'sleeping' scene in the Hall, which would suggest she is more used to being around such company. Though it did seem as though she'd been turfed out of her bedchamber and made to sleep on the sofa!

The scenes dealing with Aragorn/Arwen/Eowyn do make it clear just who he loves, and Aragorn is shown to behave in a gentlemanly fashion to Eowyn. I did not detect any instance in the films where he could have been accused of leading her into thinking he might have had feelings for her. It is also made clear how much Aragorn and Arwen love one another, and the nature of Arwen's sacrifice can be deduced. That I found to be handled well. Yet a few people have asked me why Aragorn didn't choose Eowyn once he had met her; perhaps that says a lot more about those viewers than about either film or book!

[Mithalwen]

I would have said there was a fairly obvious chemistry in TTT - far more than between Aragorn and Arwen - although I have warmed to Liv Tyler since I have learned more of how she put the breaks on the distortion of Arwen's character - I think it is one area where the late cast change shows up. While I would never swap back, for me Vggo IS Aragorn, I think Liv and Stuart Townsend would have been a more convincing couple, and I would love to see Miranda Otto and Viggo in a film where they were a couple....

[the phantom]

I did not detect any instance in the films where he could have been accused of leading her into thinking he might have had feelings for her.

Ha.

Remember in TTT when he rides off to meet the warg attack? He turns his horse around for a bit to lock eyes with her before he goes. I would definitely consider that "leading".

I mean, my friends are always ribbing me about liking some girl or flirting with some girl, and when I ask why in the world they think that, they give me lame answers like "Oh- you were looking at her. We saw you." I answer "Um, yes, it's hard to talk to someone and not look at the same time," and they say, "No, you glanced at her sometimes even when she wasn't talking." When they say that I just have to throw my hands up in disgust. I'm sure there are others who have had similar experiences.

For some people, all you have to do is glance at someone to be "leading", and Aragorn did more than glance. He gazed back at her before doing something dangerous. You can read quite a bit from that. It easily qualifies as leading in most people's books. His look said "This might be the last time I see you- just in case I die- I just wanted you to know that, um, well, you know..." or at the least his look said "I don't want to part with you, I hope I see you again."