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Old 05-04-2005, 03:55 PM   #1
davem
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‘This thing all things devours...’

I suppose Shelob & what she symbolises has been discussed so often that the subject is almost redundant. She is the ‘last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world’. In fact, in the early drafts Shelob was called ‘Ungoliant’. Like Ungoliant she consumes light itself & vomits out darkness. In fact, it seems it is not only light, but time, sound & memory that she eats.

Quote:
"Well," said Frodo, 'Orcs or no, if it's the only way, we must take it." Drawing a deep breath they passed inside, in a few steps they were in utter and impenetrable dark. Not since the lightless passages of Moria had Frodo or Sam known such darkness, and if possible here it was deeper and denser. There, there were airs moving, and echoes, and a sense of space. Here the air was still, stagnant, heavy, and sound fell dead. They walked as it were in a black vapour wrought of veritable darkness itself that, as it was breathed, brought blindness not only to the eyes but to the mind, so that even the memory of colours and of forms and of any light faded out of thought. Night always had been, and always would be, and night was all.
It seems she is like some kind of Black Hole, moving through her tunnels & taking into herself all living things, all light, all meaning, all hope. Yet she is conscious & filled with desire. She welcomes, apparently, Gollum’s ‘worship’ of her:

Quote:
Already, years before, Gollum had beheld her, Smeagol who pried into all dark holes, and in past days he had bowed and worshipped her, and the darkness of her evil will walked through all the ways of his weariness beside him, cutting him off from light and from regret. And he had promised to bring her food. But her lust was not his lust. Little she knew of or cared for towers, or rings, or anything devised by mind or hand, who only desired death for all others, mind and body, and for herself a glut of life, alone, swollen till the mountains could no longer hold her up and the darkness could not contain her.
One difference between Shelob & Ungoliant though is that Shelob fears the Light of the Silmaril which blazes from the Star Glass, whereas her infamous ancestor sought it greedily.

As to the Star-glass itself, I was struck by a few things: In the darkness of Shelob’s Lair Sam first thinks of the Barrow & Tom Bombadil, & wishes Tom was nearby. It is at this point that he recalls Galadriel’s Gift to Frodo. I wonder if Tom played some part in this remembrance of the Golden Wood. Its odd that Sam ‘invokes’ Tom & then suddenly remembers the one thing that can aid himself & his Master - the Star-glass. This makes me wonder about the ‘relationship’ of Tom & Galadriel. Is it simply a matter of Sam thinking of one supernatural helper & being reminded of another, or is there something more going on?

Another couple of passages that got me thinking:

Quote:
Slowly his hand went to his bosom, and slowly he held aloft the Phial of Galadriel. For a moment it glimmered, faint as a rising star struggling in heavy earthward mists, and then as its power waxed, and hope grew in Frodo's mind, it began to burn, and kindled to a silver flame, a minute heart of dazzling light, as though Earendil had himself come down from the high sunset paths with the last Silmaril upon his brow.
&

Quote:
From sun and moon and star they had been safe underground, but now a star had descended into the very earth.
I’m not sure why, but this image, of a star descending into the earth, seems very symbolic. The Light of Earendel is a ‘Holy’’ Light, & its difficult not to think if the ‘Harrowing of Hell’ at this point, & some interesting lines from ‘Piers Ploughman’ spring to mind:

Quote:
I will bear witness
That tho this bairn was ybore ,there blazed a star
That all the wise of this world in O wit accorded-
That such a bairn was ybore in Bethlehem the Citee
That man’s soul should save & sin destroy.
And all the elements ...hereof bearen witness.
That he was God that all wrought the wolkne (heavens) first showed
Though that were in Heaven token Stella Comata
And tended her as a torch to reverence his birth;
The Light followed the Lord into the low earth
(Spelling modernised by Matthews in her essay ‘The Rosicrucian Vault as Sepulchre & Wedding Chamber’ in Stewart: The UnderWorld Initiation). Without following Ms Matthews into the realms of Rosicrucianism & Alchemy it is clear that there is an ancient tradition of a heavenly light shining in the depths of the earth - a ‘Light shining in the Darkness - one account of the Holy Grail depicts it as a stone which fell from Heaven & embeded itself in the heart of the earth.

This ‘Light’ is powerfully symbolic - the Light itself is of ‘Heavenly’ or Divine origin, but it has been given physical form by a woman & I can’t help wondering if this is one of those ‘consciously so in the revision’ moments Tolkien mentioned in his letter.
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Old 05-04-2005, 07:38 PM   #2
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As to the Star-glass itself, I was struck by a few things: In the darkness of Shelob’s Lair Sam first thinks of the Barrow & Tom Bombadil, & wishes Tom was nearby. It is at this point that he recalls Galadriel’s Gift to Frodo. I wonder if Tom played some part in this remembrance of the Golden Wood. Its odd that Sam ‘invokes’ Tom & then suddenly remembers the one thing that can aid himself & his Master - the Star-glass. This makes me wonder about the ‘relationship’ of Tom & Galadriel. Is it simply a matter of Sam thinking of one supernatural helper & being reminded of another, or is there something more going on?
I was struck by this too, davem, and in the same way. When I reread this chapter just a few days ago, I was struck by how Sam's thought of Tom seemed to lead to his thought of the light of Galadriel. But rereading it again, now, I see contrast rather than similarity. At the risk of reading the text too closely, the sentence after Sam's wish is begun with a recapitulation of the darkness around him, and the blackness of the despair and anger inside him. Only then does it switch to his seeing what seems like a light, which grows in clarity and diversity until it's revealed as Galadriel giving gifts.

So it seems to me that it's not wishing for Tom, so much as wishing. Tom would have no power in Shelob's Lair; his land is far away. But Galadriel's gift of the light of the star of Earendil, that does have power in Shelob's Lair.

I think that Tolkien uses the logic of the story here - what would Sam be reminded of? Looking at his sword, he'd be reminded of the similarly black and evil place where the sword came from. Sam being the simple hobbit he is, he'd think of Tom, and being hopeful against all reason, or barring hope, being stubborn in the face of overwhelming adversity, he'd wish for the best good he could think of at the moment. Within the logic of the story, Manwe's eye is always watching, and Varda's ear is always listening, and they know as well as does Elrond that the quest's hope stands upon a knife-edge, and Varda hears Sam's wish for the best good, and supplies to his mind that which would really be the best good right there right then. Of course, very little of that is in the text, but all of it, or something like it, was likely in Tolkien's mind. I could be all wet, but maybe this is how Tolkien got from the dire threat of Shelob and the sword in Sam's hand, to the light of the phial of Galadriel. Just a guess.
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Old 05-05-2005, 03:30 PM   #3
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An interesting connection just occured to me regarding Frodo's cry as he holds up the Star-glass:

Quote:
Frodo gazed in wonder at this marvellous gift that he had so long carried, not guessing its full worth and potency. Seldom had he remembered it on the road, until they came to Morgul Vale, and never had he used it for fear of its revealing light. Aiya Earendil Elenion Ancalima! he cried, and knew not what he had spoken; for it seemed that another voice spoke through his, clear, untroubled by the foul air of the pit.
But other potencies there are in Middle-earth, powers of night, and they are old and strong. And She that walked in the darkness had heard the Elves cry that cry far back in the deeps of time, and she had not heeded it, and it did not daunt her now.
In Letter 297 Tolkien explains:

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Before 1914 I wrote a 'poem' on Earendil who launched his ship like a bright spark from the Havens of the Sun. I adopted him into my mythology, in which he became a prime figure as a mariner, & eventually as a herald star, a sign of hope to men. Aiya Earendil Elenion Ancalima 'Hail Earendil brightest of stars' is derived at long remove from Eala Earendel engla beorhtast but the name could not be adopted just like that: it had to be accomodated to the Elvish linguistic situation...
In other words it is the Elvish 'equivalent' of a line from the Anglo-saxon poem that was the 'spark' of the whole Legendarium, the Crist of Cynewulf, that Frodo utters in the darkness of Shelob's Lair! I find this fascinating. Its also interesting that Tolkien tells us that the Elves had cried that cry far back in the deeps of time. So in other words, Tolkien is saying that the origin of those words was not Cynewulf, but the Elves! Those words, it seems, had been passed down through the ages, starting out as an Elvish invocation of Light in the darkness & ending up in a poem about Christ.

Frodo speaks the words that would, millenia later & in another language, inspire Tolkien himself to 'rediscover' England's lost mythology! I don't know if this was another 'consciously so in the revision' moment, but certainly the connection between the 'light' which sprang into being in Tolkien's mind at his discovery of those words & the Light which sprang from the Starglass in Frodo's hand is both interesting &, to me, quite moving.
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Old 05-09-2005, 11:57 AM   #4
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I love this chapter! After most of Book IV, it is a chapter of ACTION! Yes, there is lots of movement in the previous chapters, certainly there is drama and danger, but this is the first chapter that had what one can see turned into an action sequence in a movie. This chapter is very immediate and real, I find, as a result. You are a lot closer as Sam and Frodo battle Gollum and Shelob than as they wander through Ithilien.

We get to see Sam at his most heroic in this chapter, fighting Gollum and then rushing- right at the end of the chapter, to aid his master who he has been separated from. We thus end the chapter on a suspenseful, adrenaline-filled note.

I also like the chapter for its greater Elvish overtones. One of the things I love about The Lord of the Rings is the Elvish language. I'm too lazy and non-inclined to learn it, but I love reading it. For the first and only time in Book IV, we get a touch of Elvish: Aiya Earendil Elenion Ancalima! I love that line! We also get a much greater touch the mysterious/magical in this chapter, mainly through the vial, but also through the mythic-like Shelob, who feels like a direct transplant from the Lay of Leithian.

The first time I read this chapter, I couldn't wait to move on and see Sam rescue Frodo. Boy was I in for a surprise!
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Old 05-09-2005, 12:39 PM   #5
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There will be a slight delay in the opening of the next chapter by chapter discussion thread (for "The Choices of Master Samwise"). Please continue discussing the current chapter, "Shelob's Lair," or review any of the previous chapter discussions.

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Old 05-19-2005, 03:12 PM   #6
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Though we as readers learn not only what it is lurking in those dark tunnels, but some important facts regarding that presence, Frodo and Sam discover the true shape of Shelob only very late in the chapter. And although their horror is tangible, they could not describe accurately what it was that stalked them until the last few pages…it was up until then simply something foul and menacing, something with many eyes.

Having read about Ungoliant fairly recently in the Silm. the similar attributes of a ‘black hole’ sort of darkness and gluttony ascribed to both was striking. But many thanks to davem for pointing out the dissimilarity regarding the two in their reaction to the light of Silmarils. It is something to mull over along with the cries of the Elves and other references to history.

But another curious thing to me was that Tolkien writes that Sméagol/Gollum had bowed down and worshipped Shelob. I understand why Gollum might be mentioned but why is Sméagol named here? Is this a hint about his basic nature?

Quote:
Already, years before, Gollum had beheld her, Smeagol who pried into all dark holes, and in past days he had bowed and worshipped her, and the darkness of her evil will walked through all the ways of his weariness beside him, cutting him off from light and from regret.
These passages seem to say much that hasn’t been mentioned in the story before now, something I don’t remember Gandalf having guessing at. And I am left asking myself if Gollum had been in these tunnels even before he was captured by Sauron.

Another facet that adds to the disturbing mood of the chapter is the “fey mood” Sam feels his master is in, after freeing himself of the tunnel. Sam does seem the only grounded thing in the whole surreal episode, and by the end he also seems so dreadfully alone.

Quote:
Red with his own living blood his hand shone for a moment, and then he thrust the revealing light deep into a pocket near his breast and drew his eleven-cloak about him.
This quote seems to lend a reality and solidness to Sam’s character, and I quite like Tokien’s use of the word’s ‘revealing light’ in this passage.
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Old 05-20-2005, 03:33 PM   #7
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This chapter is full of suspense - the description of the tunnel is incredibly creepy and full of foreboding. The utter darkness and the stench are something which of course couldn't be conveyed to the film and I think the scene is much more effectful in the book. It reminds me somehow of a "ghost-train" or "tunnel of horror" at a fun fair, especially the unseen things brushing their heads and hands in the dark.
I note that in the tunnel, Frodo is the one who is more resolute and couragious.
Quote:
Littlemanpoet wrote
Anyway, one thing that really stood out to me was how Sam praised Frodo for his heroic act of chasing Shelob away, saying that it would go down in song. Little did he know that his own actions in the following moments would completely overshadow those of Master Frodo
Several movie-oriented LotR-fans I know don't even remember Frodo's bravery! But I just love this scene: (probably now even more, because it is such a contrast to the helpless movie-Frodo...)
Quote:
Then Frodo's heart flamed within him , and without thinking what he did, wheter it was folly or dispair or courage, he took the Phial in his left hand, and with his right hand drew his sword. Sting flashed out and the sharp elven-blade sparkled in the silver light, but at its edges a blue fire flicked. Then holding the star aloft and the bright sword advanced, Frodo, hobbit of the Shire walked steadily down to meet the eyes.
It strikes me that the Phial by itself didn't scare Shelob, nor even Frodo's call "Aiya Earendil Elenion ancalima!" It is only when Frodo gathers his own courage that it works!
Btw It took me a heck of a time to find out what "ancalima" means! Now I know more, and Davem's post about this is fascinating!
Apparently Sting shines blue also in Shelob's presence - not only that of orcs!
Quote:
Hilde wrote:
Frodo and Sam discover the true shape of Shelob only very late in the chapter.
In fact, Frodo never sees her at all, since she comes at him from behind. Later, in Cirith Ungol, he asks Sam: "Something hit me, didn't it?"
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Last edited by Guinevere; 05-21-2005 at 02:26 PM. Reason: found the translation of a word now
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