Of Bombadillos and Balrogs - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Yaish · 01-01-2002, 07:28 PM

I know I shouldnt, but I am. I'm wieghing in on this thread you had all hoped died and went away.

First, I am getting my source on the Balrog wings from LoTR ISBN0-618-00222-7. Its a pretty recent edition, with the most accurate revisions based on JRRT's own notes and finished copies. There are several errors in many other editions, and some in this one too no doubt, but here's what it says.

First, as to size I thing Balrogs were mostly man-sized, but a little larger. Several reasons. First, the balrog was on the other side of the "great fissure" that had cut off the orcs. Now orcs being of roughly less than man size couldnt leap it. The Balrog did, but it states he did so in a rush, implying that he needed a running start. A truly humongous creature would have just stepped across. Second as to size, he is able to stand ON the bridge, which is stated as to be narrow enough to force enemies to cross single file. If he is substantially larger than a man he wouldnt likely be able to stand on the bridge. Next, he and Gandalf exchange a sword blow. Glamdrind shatters the balrogs blade but Gandolf is swayed by the blow. In other instances Gandalf is shoved, pushed, pulled, etc like a normal man of his size, so the Balrogs blow must not have been so immense as to simply sweep him off the bridge. As well, it says "drew itself up to a great height" implying that before it was NOT a great height, but now was. Also "drew up" simply means to straighten, so this was its natural maximum height. This seems to indicate a being not much larger than a human that it could be not a great height one minute and a great height the next, simply by straightening. (I am thinking a sort of hunched, brooding pose at first). Next, "the thongs lashed and curled about the wizards knees, dragging him to the brink" Dragging, not knocking him. This means the whip, with balrog holding it was twined about Gandalfs knees. Since it then states he hung for a moment, and was drug, that the balrog cannot have any great weight. So, I would say no more then twice the size of a man.

Ok, wings:
"...and the shadow about it reached out LIKE two vast wings" ok, metaphor. Then, two paragraphs later "... but the darkness grew..its wings were spread from wall to wall."
Unless JRRT uses metaphor significantly different than most authors, he is still talking about the shadow. Since wall to wall fleshly wings on a 12 ft high being dontmake sense (what, were they rolled up before?) he seems to imply that the wings were the shadow he spoke of earlier, the darkness that grew.

Ok, Tom. Ever make something and have parts left over? Or better yet draw something and all of a sudden you notice there is something in the drawing you didnt make, like a face in the bark of a tree, or a pattern in the reflection off the lake? Thats Tom Bombadil. I think he was accidentally created from the leftover magic used in the shaping of middle earth. Not the creator, nor anyone else, just there since the beginning, and wholly unique.

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01-01-2002, 07:28 PM	#35
Yaish Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NC Posts: 20	I know I shouldnt, but I am. I'm wieghing in on this thread you had all hoped died and went away. First, I am getting my source on the Balrog wings from LoTR ISBN0-618-00222-7. Its a pretty recent edition, with the most accurate revisions based on JRRT's own notes and finished copies. There are several errors in many other editions, and some in this one too no doubt, but here's what it says. First, as to size I thing Balrogs were mostly man-sized, but a little larger. Several reasons. First, the balrog was on the other side of the "great fissure" that had cut off the orcs. Now orcs being of roughly less than man size couldnt leap it. The Balrog did, but it states he did so in a rush, implying that he needed a running start. A truly humongous creature would have just stepped across. Second as to size, he is able to stand ON the bridge, which is stated as to be narrow enough to force enemies to cross single file. If he is substantially larger than a man he wouldnt likely be able to stand on the bridge. Next, he and Gandalf exchange a sword blow. Glamdrind shatters the balrogs blade but Gandolf is swayed by the blow. In other instances Gandalf is shoved, pushed, pulled, etc like a normal man of his size, so the Balrogs blow must not have been so immense as to simply sweep him off the bridge. As well, it says "drew itself up to a great height" implying that before it was NOT a great height, but now was. Also "drew up" simply means to straighten, so this was its natural maximum height. This seems to indicate a being not much larger than a human that it could be not a great height one minute and a great height the next, simply by straightening. (I am thinking a sort of hunched, brooding pose at first). Next, "the thongs lashed and curled about the wizards knees, dragging him to the brink" Dragging, not knocking him. This means the whip, with balrog holding it was twined about Gandalfs knees. Since it then states he hung for a moment, and was drug, that the balrog cannot have any great weight. So, I would say no more then twice the size of a man. Ok, wings: "...and the shadow about it reached out LIKE two vast wings" ok, metaphor. Then, two paragraphs later "... but the darkness grew..its wings were spread from wall to wall." Unless JRRT uses metaphor significantly different than most authors, he is still talking about the shadow. Since wall to wall fleshly wings on a 12 ft high being dontmake sense (what, were they rolled up before?) he seems to imply that the wings were the shadow he spoke of earlier, the darkness that grew. Ok, Tom. Ever make something and have parts left over? Or better yet draw something and all of a sudden you notice there is something in the drawing you didnt make, like a face in the bark of a tree, or a pattern in the reflection off the lake? Thats Tom Bombadil. I think he was accidentally created from the leftover magic used in the shaping of middle earth. Not the creator, nor anyone else, just there since the beginning, and wholly unique.