Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[the phantom]

how many participants would be required to demand four werewolves?

If we end up with 16 or 17 you could probably add another wolf. Or, you could add another role, such as a cobbler- one of my favorite roles.

cobbler His job sucks so bad, he wants to die. The cobbler is on the werewolves team, but is not a werewolf! He doesnt know who the werewolves are, they dont know who he is. The game does not end in a situation where #(werewolves+ cobbler) >= #villagers. The cobbler looks like a villager to the seer. The cobbler is very interesting in that he actually doesnt mind being lynched in many cases, to protect a werewolf from dying. He can also create situations late in the game where he can form a voting block with the remaining werewolf and then block any lunchings from occurring. You can even have cases where the werewolf is trying to convince the cobbler that he is in fact a wolf, or that someone might fake being a cobbler to rat out who the wolf is, so they can then say they arent really a cobbler and lynch them!
Obviously, the cobbler is a strong addition to the werewolf team. I think its a great role for situations where having one more werewolf would be too strong, but without it the werewolves are screwed.

Or you could add a wolf and a cobbler and then add masons to help the village. The people that I play Mafia with often include masons and it really adds a lot to the game.

Masons Two of the villagers are Masons (members of the secret society). Since they are together at night, they know each other are not werewolves. This adds to the game in several ways. It increases the number of people who have information, and thus makes the initial lynchings less random. It also makes two groups of people who will 'defend' each other: the werewolves and the masons.

I wouldn't mind seeing a cobbler and a couple of masons added to the mix the next game.

[mormegil]

If it comes down to the Hunter and one werewolf, who wins? I can see a case for both individuals. How would you settle this?

I know it wasn't directed to me but in this unlikely event I would say that they kill each other off and the town is left desolate.

As for the voting...I slightly favor non-retractable voting but I am fine either way.

To add the other roles such as cobbler or masons I would think that we would need more than 12. I know that's what you were saying phantom but I just wanted to add my bit about it too. It sounds okay I'm not enamoured with the idea but I guess I would need to see it played first to make up my mind.

[Holbytlass]

Whoa...seeing as I chose to be a village cobbler, I'm not saying I am a 'cobbler' (never heard of that secret-role till now) cause, well, I DON"T WANT TO DIE!!

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Hi, just wondering if I could join in! I've played this game in person before (though then it was called "Mafia" and it didn't involve much roleplaying), but never online...so I'm new at this!

If I can play, I'd like to be...a young village girl, I picture her to be someone who has just grown old enough to move out on her own, so 18ish. She could have a fruit/vegetable garden and sell fruits and veggies in a farm-stand-like operation or from a basket during the daytime hours....if that's all right.

If there's a problem with my character/occupation, or if it's too late for me to join in, please let me know!

[The Saucepan Man]

On the question of voting, the majority seem to be in favour of non-retractable votes. That's certainly the camp that I am in. It just seems to me that, if you want to make it clear who you are intending to vote for, but want to reserve the right to change your mind, you can do so without actually casting a vote at that stage. Indecisiveness, therefore, should not be an argument for having retractable votes. The arguments on which team it favours go both ways, although I find Kuru's point that it is more likely to favour the Werewolves more rather compelling. So, the only real justification for having retractable voting that I have seen is Mithalwen's point that some players may have to log-off before the DAY's discussion has really got underway and may be concerned that they will not have a chance to vote later, once more evidence has come out.

On balance, I remain against retractable votes. But, if they are to be allowed, then I think Eomer's idea that the retraction of votes should be discouraged and done only rarely, such as in the circumstances that Mith contemplates, is a good one. Also, once a clear majority is reached, that should most definately be a cut-off point. Really, though, allowing them at all risks them being used willy-nilly (so to speak).

Saucy - a question about the Werewolf Hunter (yeah, another one). If it comes down to the Hunter and one werewolf, who wins? I can see a case for both individuals. How would you settle this?

That would never happen though, since the Werewolves win as soon as their number equals that of the Villagers. So, as soon as the last Villager before the Hunter gets killed off, the Werewolves win.

I have a question, though. Clearly, there is little sense in having the Guardian active during the first NIGHT since he cannot protect the moderator from being killed. But are you proposing that the Seer gets to dream of another Villager on the first NIGHT? I can see arguments both ways. Although it would slightly disadvantage the Werewolves, it would also make the first DAY's discussion slightly less random.

On numbers, I think that (with Azaelia and Firefoot) we have about 13 or 14 players. My understanding from what BW said is that the game should have no more than 19 players. I presume that more than that would tip the game in favour of the Villagers unless an additional Werewolf is added. Also, any more than 19 players and the game will get too long, so I think that should be the cut-off point for players and that we should stick with 3 Werewolves.

Like mormegil, I am not over-keen on the additional roles that the phantom suggests, not for the time being anyway. Since most of us are still pretty new to the game, I think that we should keep it relatively simple for now. More roles would be likely to over-complicate things, at least for my poor simple mind. Perhaps they could be introduced once more of us have got a few more games under our belts.

[Holbytlass]

I don't believe it is too late to join. Eomer will be the judge of that. However, it's great to have freshmeat! Your persona sounds fine, just don't say you're the 'innocent'.

[mormegil]

I have a question, though. Clearly, there is little sense in having the Guardian active during the first NIGHT since he cannot protect the moderator from being killed. But are you proposing that the Seer gets to dream of another Villager on the first NIGHT? I can see arguments both ways. Although it would slightly disadvantage the Werewolves, it would also make the first DAY's discussion slightly less random.

I would argue that the seer should be allowed to dream the first night. Two reasons mainly, the first being as SpM stated that perhaps it will give some direction to the first day's debate. Secondly, it's pathetically obvious that the villagers need all of the help we can get. Plus it's not easy to be the seer. So Eomer if you're looking for votes on that mine is yea.


Edit: just to pound in the point I think it important for all those who are playing to be on invisible mode for the duration of their game. I am currently on in and will stay so until I am done with the game. Whether innocent or guilty I think it important for all to do this, as has been previously stated.

[the phantom]

I think that we should keep it relatively simple for now. More roles would be likely to over-complicate things, at least for my poor simple mind. Perhaps they could be introduced once more of us have got a few more games under our belts.

But Mr. Saucepan, the entire point of this game is to make everyone thoroughly unsure of every little move they make and to cause people to over-analyze every tiny thing the other players do until they can't even think straight and aren't able to sleep at night and start being paranoid about things in real life.

Ah yes- complete confusion and utter paranoia are the ultimate goals of this game, therefore to "over-complicate things" is exactly what we need.

Wouldn't you agree?