Female Nazgûl???

[Bêthberry]

Other than Galadriel, who had issues with power and aggression and dominance (see Celeborn), I don't think we see any other women who are tempted by the Ring.

Clearly, "Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die" is a specific statement about the male sex and not a general statement used by analogy for all of human/huwyman kind.

And just as clearly then, there could not be female nazgul. Females are beyond such power tripping. It's only the wedding ring that gets them.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Bb

Clearly, "Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die" is a specific statement about the male sex and not a general statement used by analogy for all of human/huwyman kind.

No. It's just that "Nine for Mortal Persons doomed to die" would not have scanned correctly and would have lost that slight alliterative feel ...

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

No. It's just that "Nine for Mortal Persons doomed to die" would not have scanned correctly and would have lost that slight alliterative feel ...

Tut tut, my good SpM. Poetic license would never be countenanced by as good a philologist as our Professor. His words always mean exactly what he intends them to mean. And clearly he never intended any woman to succumb to the Ring other than our G-lady or he would have showed us. No reading in of your own ideas now!

[davem]

Whenever the reference to a race or culture is capitalised (Men, Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, Numenoreans, etc) it refers to all the members of that race. In the history of the Ring very few individuals come into contact with it, & they are all male. For women not to be tempted by the Ring would basically mean they are 'unfallen' & so immune to temptation. As no race within Me is unfallen, both males & females must be subject to the lure of the Ring if they come into contact with it. It could be argued perhaps that women would be less likely to sucumb due to psychological differences, but that begs a much larger question...

Or maybe women would be more likely to succumb - the Entwives seem more desirous of control over the natural environment than the Ents, for example. Maybe the males realised this & went out of their way to make sure it never came near women....

[Formendacil]

Does it actually say that all the Ringwraiths (hmm.. Wringraiths?) were male? I mean, we know that they were all of the race of Man, and the logical conclusion is, from all the information we have, that they were all men, but does it actually, conclusively say that?

This appears to have been the original question the thread, and in reading it, I can see no evidence presented that it was ever definitively said that they were all male (although the implication would seem obvious, and Tolkien would likely have a fit if anyone thought otherwise...).

Still, warrior could be male or female, and Christina, daughter of Gustav Adolphus (I think that was the one) was the "King" of Sweden, so....

If this lack of definitive statement is the case, then one could spend a great deal of time having fun pretending that Nazguls #6 and #7 were female...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Bb, nine for mortal men, doomed to die.....

.....but the Balrog spread its wings, and we all know that Balrogs don't have wings, thus your point is surely lost. So the Nazgul might have included some ladies.

Did anyone else find that earlier "Sauron=racist/sexist" discussion quite hilarious?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Did anyone else find that earlier "Sauron=racist/sexist" discussion quite hilarious?

Aye, Eomer. This was a thread just begging to be revisited.

Originally Posted by davem

Or maybe women would be more likely to succumb - the Entwives seem more desirous of control over the natural environment than the Ents, for example. Maybe the males realised this & went out of their way to make sure it never came near women....

You know, I have always felt this was a bit of bad press, or even Translator's Conceit. I mean, after all, we never actually see an entwife, so we never observe her/ their actual behaviour or attitude towards the natural environment. All we get is the opinion of the ents. Talk about one side of the story!

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

If this lack of definitive statement is the case, then one could spend a great deal of time having fun pretending that Nazguls #6 and #7 were female...

What might you be referring to here? Succubi?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

But Frodo probably would not have been tempted by a female Ringwraith...

O dear, this is heading towards Mirth.

[Eledhewin Ilanora]

Talking bout nazgul..if only sauron was not so sexist and send his nazguls to shire to track baggins..all he had to do is find one twisted female halfling to tempt the hobbit and he may possess the ring with no hassle. Sending some scary males to terrorise the hobbit sure brought them all the way to mt doom.

Morale of the story: Sexism dont pay...hik