LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 02 - The Passing of the Grey Company

[Aldarion Elf-Friend]

Originally Posted by Celuien

Something that stood out in the conversation with Aragorn was Éowyn's sudden use of thee instead of you. The only other instance where she uses that word was in a cermonial salute to Theoden after his recovery. I'm wondering if the sudden switch was intentional to show familiarity after she declares her love for Aragorn or if the appearance is more related to style changes in the chapter.

I don't have the books in front of my right now, but in one of the appendices, the one on the languages of Middle Earth, Tolkien explains that when the English translation switches to the more formal "thees" and "thous" it indicates that the characters have switched to an older, more formal version of their language.

Maybe someone with the books handy can elaborate.

[Encaitare]

From Appendix F, Section II: On Translation

The Common Speech, as the language of the Hobiits and their narratives, has inevitably been turned into modern English. In the process the difference between the varieties observable in the use of the Westron has been lessened. Some attempt has been made to represent these varieties by variations in the kind of English used; but the divergence between the pronunciation and idiom of the Shire and the Westron tongue in the mouths of the Elves or of the high men of Gondor was greater than has been shown in this book. Hobbits indeed spoke for the most part a rustic dialect, whereas in Gondor and Rohan a more antique language was used, more formal and more terse.

One point in the divergence may here be noted, since, though often important, it has proved impossible to represent. The Westron tongue made in the pronouns of the second person (and often also in those of the third) a distinction, independent of number, between 'familiar' and 'deferential' forms. It was, however, one of the peculiarities of Shire-usage that the deferential forms had gone out of colloquial use. They lingered only among the villagers, especially of the West-farthing, who used them as endearments. This was one of the things referred to when people of Gondor spoke of the strangeness of Hobbit-speech. Peregrin Took, for instance, in his first few days at Minas Tirith used the familiar form to people of all ranks, including the Lord Denethor himself. This may have amused the aged Steward, but it must have astonished his servants. No doubt this free use of the familiar forms helped to spread the popular rumour that Peregrin was a person of very high rank in his own country. [1]

1. In one or two places an attempt has been made to hint at these distinctions by an inconsistent use of thou. Since this pronoun is now unusual and archaic it is employed mainly to represent the use of ceremonious language; but a change from you to thou/thee is sometimes meant to show, there being no other means of doing this, a significant change from the deferential, or between men and women normal, forms to the familiar.

[Lhunardawen]

Halbarad said of what he bore when Aragorn asked him about it…

‘It is a gift that I bring you from the Lady of Rivendell. She wrought it in secret, and long was the making. But she also sends word to you: The days now are short. Either our hope cometh, or all hopes end. Therefore I send thee what I have made for thee. Fare well, Elfstone!’

It’s interesting to note that Halbarad did not actually define what he was bringing, but Aragorn figured it out. Perhaps it was the words that came with the gift that made it known. Their only hope at the time was for Aragorn to be made king, for as Elrond told him (as mentioned in the Appendix),

‘Maybe, it has been appointed so, that by my loss the kingship of Men may be restored. Therefore, though I love you, I say to you: Arwen Undómiel shall not diminish her life’s grace for less cause. She shall not be the bride of any Man less than the King of both Gondor and Arnor.’ (italics mine)

All hopes end if this does not come to pass, if Sauron is not defeated. Another curious thing is that Arwen made it in secret, alone. Did she not want her father to see that she is (or will be, as we shall see chapters from this) instrumental in Aragorn’s victory and thus, in the end, their sundering for eternity? After Aragorn told Halbarad to bear it for him for the meantime, he looked away "to the North" and "fell silent and spoke no more." He’s thanking her through osanwë?

I have been wondering about this for the longest time, and only now did I finally understand how the Dúnedain have come. This was the response of Gimli and Legolas when Merry asked that:

‘They answered a summons, as you heard,’ said Gimli. ‘Word came to Rivendell, they say: Aragorn has need of his kindred. Let the Dúnedain ride to him in Rohan! But whence this message came they are now I doubt. Gandalf sent it, I would guess.’
‘Nay, Galadriel,’ said Legolas. ‘Did she not speak through Gandalf of the Ride of the Grey Company from the North?’

Looking back at the return of Gandalf in The White Rider, he told Aragorn this message from Galadriel:

Where now are the Dúnedain, Elessar, Elessar?
Why do thy kinsfolk wander afar?
Near is the hour when the Lost should come forth,
And the Grey Company ride form the North,
But dark is the path appointed for thee:
The Dead watch the road that leads to the Sea.

Aragorn, at that time, said nothing about this. But going back to this chapter, we can see that he has not forgotten the words; indeed, the circumstances are about to make them happen. Had Pippin not found the Palantír, had he not taken a look at it, had Gandalf not laid the charge of guarding it to Aragorn, no one would ever have found out the unexpected peril approaching Gondor. At first it seemed to me that Aragorn had broken his word in The Palantír…

‘Receive it, lord!’ [Gandalf] said: ‘in earnest of other things that shall be given back. But if I may counsel you in the use of your own, do not use it - yet! Be wary!’
‘When have I been hasty or unwary, who have waited and prepared for so many long years?’ said Aragorn.
‘Never yet. Do not then stumble at the end of the road,’ answered Gandalf.

for it has been only days since they had this conversation. But it was as if everything had been ordained and predestined, bringing about a turn of events that probably even Gandalf would never have foreseen. It was these series of happenings that confirmed for Aragorn the road he must take, and despite his reservations and Éowyn’s pleas later in the chapter, he must not be dissuaded. It was a different case for his companions, however. As he said to Éowyn:

‘It is not madness, lady,’ he answered; ‘for I go on a path appointed. But those who follow me do so of their free will; and if they wish now to remain and ride with the Rohirrim, they may do so. But I shall take the Paths of the Dead, alone, if needs be.’ (italics mine)

Aragorn did two things at the same time as he said this: one, he explained the situation to Éowyn; and two, he has given his companions a chance to take a different road if they desire so. A perfect mix of predestination and free will this is, if I may say.

Speaking of Aragorn and Éowyn… there is more to their conversation than what they actually talk about and the emotions revealed. There is a shifting in their relationship as they talked. The last time they met, there is an invisible barrier of respect and unfamiliarity between them. But as Aragorn mentioned the road he is about to take:

Then she stared at him as one that is stricken, and her face blanched, and for long she spoke no more, while all sat silent. ‘But, Aragorn,’ she said at last, ‘is it then your errand to seek death? For that is all that you will find on that road. They do not suffer the living to pass.’

At the prospect of losing the one she loves, she breaks, for her part, the barrier of respect by questioning his will. Interestingly, this coincides with the first time she has ever mentioned Aragorn’s name. But Aragorn maintains the barrier by referring to her still as ‘lady’. That night, Éowyn continued to take advantage of the now-open line of communication from herself to him:

‘Aragorn,’ she said, ‘why will you go on this deadly road?’
‘Because I must,’ he said. ‘Only so can I see hope of doing my part in the war against Sauron. I do not choose paths of peril, Éowyn. Were I to go where my heart dwells, far in the North I would now be wandering in the fair valley of Rivendell.’

Now it was Aragorn who mentioned Éowyn’s name! But then right after that he finally revealed that he loves someone else. We do not know if Éowyn understood this, but afterwards she "laid her arm on his hand." Note that this is the first time either of them made deliberate physical contact with the other. (On a side note, it was at the very first, accidental, physical contact they had that Aragorn probably found out Éowyn’s feelings for him. Remember? The cup?) Perhaps it was the mention of her name that prompted Éowyn to do this, for by saying her name Aragorn has finally completely broken the barrier between them. Éowyn’s next words, though, brought an unexpected twist:

‘Lord,’ she said, ‘if you must go, then let me ride in your following.

Just when the barriers are gone, Éowyn seemed to create another! But this time, I believe, the word ‘lord’ is used to mean ‘master’. The one who calls the shots. The one who is followed. And that’s exactly what Éowyn wanted Aragorn to be for her. Aragorn’s mention of Éowyn’s name brought about his turn, this time, to question Éowyn’s desire to follow him, just as Éowyn had done the first time. Their debate continues, and in the end, when neither of them would give in to the other, they closed up the barriers once again. Éowyn emphasized the return of their ceremonial respect for and relative unfamiliarity towards each other by using the word ‘thee’ (thanks to Aldarion for pointing it out and Encaitare for the quote), but, ironically, coupled it with the explicit revelation of her feelings.

The next day, we see that Aragorn has once again maintained his respect towards Éowyn as he called her “Lady of Rohan,” but Éowyn made a final act of desperation: she called him by name and knelt before him, but still referred to him as ‘thee’ or ‘thou’. Aragorn refused, but this time, moved by his emotions, he "[took] her by the hand and raised her." We can see that saying ‘nay’ to such a lady was no easy thing for him, perfectly gentlemanly as he is. *swoons, and falls over*

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

Éowyn emphasized the return of their ceremonial respect for and relative unfamiliarity towards each other by using the word ‘thee’ (thanks to Aldarion for pointing it out and Encaitare for the quote), but, ironically, coupled it with the explicit revelation of her feelings.

The next day, we see that Aragorn has once again maintained his respect towards Éowyn as he called her “Lady of Rohan,” but Éowyn made a final act of desperation: she called him by name and knelt before him, but still referred to him as ‘thee’ or ‘thou’. Aragorn refused, but this time, moved by his emotions, he "[took] her by the hand and raised her." We can see that saying ‘nay’ to such a lady was no easy thing for him, perfectly gentlemanly as he is. *swoons, and falls over*

Actually, my understanding of the thou/you shift, and the bottom of the above quote provided will bear me out, is that in a conversation where the usage of you/thou shifts back and forth, "you" is a more respectful, more 'distant' usage, while "thou" is more familiar, the sort of thing a husband and wife would use when talking to each other.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Actually, my understanding of the thou/you shift, and the bottom of the above quote provided will bear me out, is that in a conversation where the usage of you/thou shifts back and forth, "you" is a more respectful, more 'distant' usage, while "thou" is more familiar, the sort of thing a husband and wife would use when talking to each other.

Why, indeed the quote says that! Maybe only this part of the previous quote stuck to me:

Since this pronoun is now unusual and archaic it is employed mainly to represent the use of ceremonious language

[Lathriel]

In this chapter we get to see more of Eowyn and we get to know more of her feelings. Of course we already know that she cares for Aaragorn but now we also learn what she fears

"A cage,-to stay behind bars, untill use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire."

(This is exactly what would happen if Sauron won.) Already Eowyn is stuck in one place and she is not given the freedom that she craves. She wants to be known because she hopes that this way she will also have more freedom and more of a say with what she wants to do, not what others want her to do.
But I do understand why Theoden wants her to stay behind at Edoras. He knows he can trust her and he knows that she will make the right desicions.
Those are som short thoughts for now. I'll probably post some more later.

[Kuruharan]

But I do understand why Theoden wants her to stay behind at Edoras. He knows he can trust her and he knows that she will make the right desicions.

Well, actually, evidence suggests that Theoden only thinks he can trust her and that she will do the right thing. What she did was not what he was expecting, to say the least.