Red Flows the Sirannon Planning/Discussion Thread

[Amanaduial the archer]

All of this talk makes me realize one very important thing…this game, if many of the things I discussed become realities in this, most likely is going to take more time than I originally predicted, and thus more commitment. I don’t want to ask that of people unless they really want to commit so much of their time

Nonsense. As much time as you like from this corner, darlin', so long as you can put up with me.

Ok, I had plans basically to carry on what you started from the PM/email discussion Durelin and I had, as I'd like to enhance a few ideas, add a few new ones and just lay them all out, as a chance for everyone to see and comment, but not sure how far I'm gonna get on this because it's kinda late and I have church tomorrow. But then, never having been one to shy away from a bad idea...

I agree, Durelin - it's probably better that Elrond and Celebrimbor are NPCs - too much historical weightiness, major Tolkien characters, etc etc etc. However, they are important characters, and so the possibility is opened up that, instead of directly playing the characters themselves, players could take the roles of fictional characters close to the characters - friends, advisors etc - so several different players get the chance to carry-along and, to an extent, 'play' Celebrimbor and Elrond - for example, as Durelin said, a few of the elves could be part of Celebrimbor's. It means he becomes an active part of the game, and therefore his importance is emphasised.

Also along the lines of emphasising Celebrimbor's importance and the importance of the Elven ringsespecially - bearing in mind the whole game is based on him, this is probably going to be a rather important device in the game (I'm sorry if that's the wrong word for it, I'm rather tired, not that that's an excuse particularly). So onto how to do this: the idea of 'setting the scene' so to speak that Durelin mentioned is one that I like. An idea would be to have an introduction style passage about the forging of the rings, and then skip to the buildup to the invasion of Eregion, beginning (?) with the hiding of the rings - you know, go for the whole darkness and mystery as a start, it could be a rather intriguing start. And then build up to the invasion and then so on. It would just get us off to a rather flying start and make the RPG altogether a bit different. Thoughts? (And Durelin, I love the way you phrased that - "rather than him simply starting out in the RPG as simply some elf who, basically, made Sauron angry." )

However, I would say that we should probably get to the seige fairly sharpish after the initial, I don't know, call it the 'introductory period' of the ring-forging and the character responses to it (like that idea very much btw, Durelin) - the seige is really going to be the main beef of the game, it would seem, so the two options would be to have it as a real climax or to have it as the main bulk of the whole game - so that depends really on how long we spend on how long is spent on the introductory period. I would favour having a relatively short introductory period, so that the action is fairly quickly reached. But it does really allow us to be more exploratory plot-wise, and so I think it would be very important - so hey, extending it is no bad thing. What do you think?

However...during the seige period, the seige will probably not be the only thing going on - how about two or maybe more stories going on at once? Elrond's elves and the elves of Eriador could both be played seperately but at once. This idea of having two or more lines going on at once in one RPG has possible advantages and, of course, possible risks, but on the positive side, it means that when Elrond's elves finally do arrive at Eriador, it reaches a real climax in the game because all the characters suddenly come together - this could work very well. Having two games means having more characters, of course, and this could affect the length of the game again, which may be a problem for some people...

Another pointer on characters which I kinda ran past Durelin - the idea of having other 'perspectives' i.e. other than soldiers. This is a city: so maybe we could have other roles being played, such as a female elf/elves and/or a younger/non-fighting character. It just opens up to give more variety to the game by introducing someone who is not directly fighting but who is, of course, directly affected by it.

Um. Yes. Anyway. I feel my sense-making...thing...brain! Yes, that's it! I feel that my brain is having issues processing in any sensible fashion any more with such lo-ong paragraphs, so I shall sign off. All feedback on aforementioned ideas is...good...

Oh, and Durelin - about telling me to stop apologising...it's a RL habit that kinda seeps into the Internet as well. It's kinda an inferiority complex, mainly borne of being inferior. Which is, you know, fun. *shrugs*

[Durelin]

Aman - You just summed up so many things I was trying to say in a much clearer and more concise way...I owe you.

And yes, dwelling too long on all the setting up, as much wonder and mystery as there will be to have fun with, would be a mistake. I'd love to take at least some time, though, while still keeping the siege as a very large climax.

how about two or maybe more stories going on at once? Elrond's elves and the elves of Eriador could both be played seperately but at once.

I really think that would be an excellent way to go. I've really enjoyed RPGs that go that way, as you know. And, as you suggested before, Aman, the Lindon Elves could really start right into the story as their own little *plotline*. Early on, I'd expect Gil-galad and Círdan would call a Council, in which the characters from Lindon (and of course Elrond) could participate, if they choose to go in this direction. This Council would be concerned with the matter of hiding the Three Rings, and the rise of Sauron and the threat he is to Eriador, particularly the Elven region of Eregion. One of the decisions it would make would be to send Elrond to Ost-in-Edhil. From here, the Lindon Elves would be a separate group making their way to the city, in haste.

Another pointer on characters which I kinda ran past Durelin - the idea of having other 'perspectives' i.e. other than soldiers. This is a city: so maybe we could have other roles being played, such as a female elf/elves and/or a younger/non-fighting character. It just opens up to give more variety to the game by introducing someone who is not directly fighting but who is, of course, directly affected by it.

That's what I forgot to talk about! *smacks herself* I loved this idea, and I want to make this a proposition: how about the addition of a couple more Elves of Eregion as more 'secondary characters', and as non-fighters? I hope this might open up more interest for those gamers who would prefer playing a female role or a non-fighter as opposed to a warrior.

Oh, and Durelin - about telling me to stop apologising...it's a RL habit that kinda seeps into the Internet as well. It's kinda an inferiority complex, mainly borne of being inferior. Which is, you know, fun. *shrugs*

Hehe... Well, don't worry, I have the same problem much of the time. It's just when I'm posting that I put on my *business hat* and pump myself up for sounding a little less inferior than perhaps I should, just so I can sound like I know what I'm talking about.

And, as Aman said: responses to all ideas, suggestions, and any other ideas anyone might have...we encourage very much that these be voiced.

-Durelin

[piosenniel]

Originally Posted by Durelin

And, as you suggested before, Aman, the Lindon Elves could really start right into the story as their own little *plotline*. Early on, I'd expect Gil-galad and Círdan would call a Council, in which the characters from Lindon (and of course Elrond) could participate, if they choose to go in this direction. This Council would be concerned with the matter of hiding the Three Rings, and the rise of Sauron and the threat he is to Eriador, particularly the Elven region of Eregion. One of the decisions it would make would be to send Elrond to Ost-in-Edhil. From here, the Lindon Elves would be a separate group making their way to the city, in haste.

This would be interesting and doable IF there is a strong writer on the Lindon Elves team. Do you have one in mind that you could recruit, cajole, bribe?

~*~

Originally Posted by Durelin

. . . how about the addition of a couple more Elves of Eregion as more 'secondary characters', and as non-fighters? I hope this might open up more interest for those gamers who would prefer playing a female role or a non-fighter as opposed to a warrior.

I'll put up a couple more Eregion slots designating them as "female character preferred". Let's just call them "characters" without the designation of "secondary" . . . I've found that unless players are just waiting to do a CAMEO, they tend to just fall away from the game if you don't keep them engaged.

[piosenniel]

Here's my Dwarf.

I've done his history starting at the point of the attack leading to the destruction of Eregion. But he can, of course, chime in for the earlier period you thought you might open the game with - I tried to cover it all in his History section.

I also made it easy for the Elves from Lorien to get quickly from the eastside of the mountain range where Lorien is to the west side where Eregion lies. I read in Tolkien's Unfinished Tales and Peoples of Middle-earth (part of Histories of Middle-earth) about Galadriel's feelings toward the Dwarves of Khazad-dum, which were positive, versus Celeborn's feelings which were quite negative.

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Pio’s character

NAME: Riv Stonecut

AGE: 109 (born 2 years before the Three Rings were made by the Elven smiths)

RACE: Dwarf – one of Durin’s Folk/Longbeard clan

GENDER: male

WEAPONS: mattock; war hammer – thick oaken haft bearing a heavy iron head, sharply beaked blade on one side and a flat, faceted hammer head opposite. For battles in larger, more open spaces, he bears an oak hafted pole axe with a razor sharp edged steel head. Iron helm; long chain mail; thick boiled leather vest; plated arm and leg guards.

APPEARANCE: 5’2”; 160 lbs. Muscular; broad and solidly built. Thick, brown hair worn in a single plait down his back. thick, wiry beard, worn in two braids on either side of his chin. Black breeches, grey tunic, dark brown leather vest with all sorts of pockets for small jewelers tools. Black leather knee high boots, well worn, thick soled. Granite grey, hooded cape; on its left shoulder is a bright silver brooch – a small pick axe with a deep red wine colored garnet set between its two blades. It was a gift from one of the Elven smiths for the precious stones and metals Riv’s family mined for him.

PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES: Patient, meticulous in his work – he is an excellent smith; working both with large stones for the building of things and with smaller precious and semiprecious gems for use in adornment. He is skilled in metalworking, though his taste runs to those small castings within which he can set his jewels. Does not like change – it’s too disruptive to his need for long periods of time for his work.

Loyal to his family and kin; loyal to the Elves of the Gwaith-i-Mirdain with whom he’s had the opportunity to work and share smithing skills.

Not quick to anger; but when the fires of anger are lit at last, they burn hot within him. He can be a bloodthirsty and avenger of wrongs against kin and friend. He despises Orcs for slaying Dwarves and taking their possessions and homes. Even in battle, he is a patient man, looking always for the most thrifty way to eliminate the foe.

His main weakness is his need to protect his immediate family. At the age of 98, he was fortunate enough to be married. He counts his wife, Unna, more precious than any metal or jewel he can mine. And more precious still is his son, Leifr, 5 years old.

HISTORY: (At present it is II 1695) Riv was born in Khazad-dûm, which was then under the Kingship of Durin II and is now ruled by Durin III. His father is Viss Stonecut; mother, Svala Bronzeeyes. He learned the art and craft of mining stone and metal from his father, whose main business was the mining and selling of metal ore to smiths of the Elves and Men. From his grandfather, Aunn Stonecut, Riv learned the skills for discovering veins of precious gems, cutting them into the shapes which best showed off their faceted beauty, and the setting of the gems into gold and silver. He has since increased his knowledge of this process through his friendships with some of the Elven jewelsmiths in Eregion.

He has a younger sibling, a brother, Skald, five years younger than he. His favored skill is that of working with large blocks of stone for building, and the engraving of such stones with runes. His youngest brother is Bror, who is 64 years old.

In II 1693 Sauron was bent on obtaining for his own use the sixteen Rings of Power he had helped the Elves of Eregion to make. He declared war on the Elves who would not relinquish to him the Three Rings of Power they had made in secret without his aid.

Until that time, it was for the most part peaceful. the Elven jewelsmiths in Eregion prospered and increased their skills many times over. But when they refused Sauron’s requests for the Three Rings, a great shadow crept over the land, even to the West-gate of Moria. Orcs and other foul creatures were set against the Elves at Ost-in-Edhil, the chief city of Eregion where the House of the Mirdain stood. Sauron revealed himself, his fair face he had shown to the Elves as Annatar was now one of darkness and wrath. He was bent on destroying the Elves and whoever stood in his way as he pursued the three hidden rings.

Durin III was the first of the Dwarven rulers to receive one of the seven rings Sauron had helped forge. Celebrimbor, it was said by the Dwarves of Moria, had gifted their King with the ring just prior to Sauron’s demands for the Seven Rings made for the Dwarves and the Nine made for Men.

Fearing for the life of his son, who was but one year old at the start of the war, and for his wife who is now pregnant with their second child, Riv has geared himself up for war. The chain mail and plated guards for the limbs were taken down and cleaned and mended. His mattock he’s laid aside to use only if the Orc armies enter Moria. The edges of his war hammer and pole axe have been made keen. Unna and Leifr have been made safe in the deeper, secret caverns of Moria, along with the other women and children.

He and his brothers, Skald and Bror, are part of a small armed party of Dwarves, one of many, who harry the Orcs with their strike-kill-and-run tactics. At times, too, they are sent to the eastern entrance to Moria. There they lead small troops of Elven warriors from Lothlorien on the quick route through the mountains. These Lorinand have been sent by the Lady of the Golden Wood to aid the Elves of Eregion. She is favorable to the Dwarves, knowing that they were not of the kin who slew Thingol in his own treasury when he would not give them the Nauglamir. Celeborn, however, bears them great enmity, holding all dwarves responsible for the death of his father’s uncle.

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Piosenniel's post:

. . . The world was fair, the mountains tall,
In Elder Days before the fall
Of mighty kings in Nargothrond
And Gondolin, who now beyond
The Western Seas have passed away:
The world was fair in Durin's Day . . .

Supper, taken late as was the Stonecut custom, was done. The trenchers, already carried to the kitchen, clanked together in the soapy water as Unna washed and rinsed them, and piled them on the counter to her left to dry. Her back was to the oaken table across the length of the stone floor. And she smiled as she heard the off-key bass of her husband’s singing voice rise up to sing a verse of the song.

‘Fairer yet,’ she chuckled as she took up her dishtowel and dried the spoons, ‘if the notes in this part of Khazad-dûm were more harmonious!’

‘I heard that, woman!’ cried Riv, breaking off mid note. His scowl was short-lived as she laughed aloud, her voice ringing within the tall-ceilinged room.

‘Well, I think you have a nice voice, Papi,’ chirped Leifr, coming to sit on his father’s lap. He twirled his fingers round Riv’s braided beard, leaning against him with a contented sigh. ‘Grandma says you sing just like your father did.’

Riv’s chest puffed out at the compliment and was promptly deflated by Unna’s laughter as she recalled to him that the old woman had also said she was certain that Durin was called ‘the Deathless’ because her husband’s bellowed verses could raise the dead from their thick stone tombs.

An hour or so more of friendly, familiar banter, accompanied by the sound of Bror’s harp and interspersed with more singing, came finally to its end. Leifr was yawning by then, barely able to keep his eyes open. Riv picked up the boy where he lay half drowsing on a bear pelt near the fire and carried him off to the deeper caverns where Unna and the other Dwarven women with their children stayed.

The lamps were turned low along the hallways; the lamp swinging from Unna’s hand as she walked beside her husband cast odd moving shadows along the carven stone walls. Her face was wistful as they reached her apartments. Laying Leifr down gently on his little bed, Riv drew the quilts up over his son’s shoulders and brushed a stray hair back from his little face. ‘Mahal keep you!’ he whispered to the sleeping form. He stood then, and took his wife gently into his arms. ‘When this is over . . .’ he said softly, his cheek against the top of her head. She pulled back and laid her first two fingers against his lips. Her glittering eyes held hope and patience within their deep, dark pools. ‘We will wait,’ she promised him, ‘whether the time be short or long.’

She urged him gently toward the door. ‘You must go. Your brothers and Uncle await. There is news to be shared among you. Reports and rumors of goings on in the upper caverns come to us. We know a messenger has come from the Elven smiths. And that an escort is needed for the Elves who will come from the east, sent by the Lady of the Golden Wood. Since your father was often among the Lorinand, bringing them jewels and metals as they needed, I thought that surely you and your brothers would be the ones to fetch them from the Dimrill Stair and bring them through the East-gate.’

He nodded it was so. Smothering her with a last great hug, he turned reluctantly from her and made his way back to his dwelling. Skald and Bror were waiting at the table where he had left them. Their voices were low as they sipped at their mugs of ale, discussing, he was sure, the preparations for the thirty mile journey to the East-gate and the wait for the Elves of Lorien. Orin, their Uncle, had arrived, too, he saw.

‘Well, what have I missed?’ Riv said, fetching a mug for himself from the cupboard. He topped off theirs and filled his from the skin of ale that hung from the peg on the wall. ‘We’re taking a full complement of weapons . . . yes? No telling how long it might take the Elves to make their way down the Stairs and cross the valley. Or what might try to follow them.’ He took a deep drink from his cup. ‘There have been reports of Orcs sniffing about the Kheled-zaram. Or so I heard.’ He banged the metal mug down on the table’s top, a little ale foam splashing over the side. ‘Love to set my mattock in a few of their skulls and pick out what passes for brains among the filthy creatures . . .’


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