Using Shelob, and choice of cliffhangers

[drigel]

Yea great point Eomer!
I would end it before the tower scene. People would be walking out quizzing their Tolkien expert friends: "Frodo dies? How can Frodo die???"

[Gurthang]

Yes, I agree entirely. The book ending had me so worked up that I couldn't wait to run to the library and get RotK. The movie left me disappointed; I had so been looking forward to seeing Shelob and then had to wait another year! And personally, I thought TTT was somewhat dragged out. It seemed much longer than it was. I could definitely have gone for more action.

And that's a good point about 'nothing left for RotK'. There would be plenty. When watching RotK in theater, I noticed a few points that seemed strangely broken, and I expected extended edition scenes in those breaks. The first one I remember was when the camera pans up and shows a circle of trees (the crossroads) in the distance, then doesn't say/show anything more about them. Until the EE that is. The second moment I noticed was when Sam was approaching the gate at Cirith Ungol. It zoomed in on the watchers and then Sam simply passes through. Again I was expecting a scene in the extended release, but there was no scene. Personally, I think it was a bad bit of directing, especially showing those statues up close and then ignoring them.

[mormegil]

I wonder, though, if that ending in TTT would be a bit much for a theatrical version. It seems to great a cliffhanger to end upon. The medium is different between movie and book (obviously) so Tolkien was able to effectively leave us with Shelob "killing" Frodo in the book, however, I don't see that it could be effectively done in the movie.

I think it would be a suspense overload and many movie goers wouldn't enjoy such an "ending", especially that large group who hadn't read the books.

I've stated elsewhere that I wish RotK had more of Sam and Frodo's journey through Mordor, the orc march specifically, but I don't agree that leaving Frodo "dead" would be a good way to end TTT.

Perhaps if we wanted to include Shelob in TTT then we could have gotten through Cirith Ungol but then the RotK would only be left with Mordor and Mt. Doom for Frodo and Sam.

I think what PJ was hoping to capture with Shelob at the start of RotK was instant excitement and energy. Show how perilous Mordor is. He didn't want to get Sam and Frodo to Mordor in the TTT and then resume in RotK. It was segmented into three pieces.

1. Frodo and Sam with the Fellowship
2. Frodo and Sam with Gollum
3. Frodo and Sam alone and in Mordor

[Folwren]

Originally posted by mormegil
I've stated elsewhere that I wish RotK had more of Sam and Frodo's journey through Mordor, the orc march specifically, but I don't agree that leaving Frodo "dead" would be a good way to end TTT.

No, no, no. You don't leave him "Dead", so to speak, just helpless. The audience will end up knowing he's alive by the end. He could effectively end it with the same sentence (or, as it would be in a movie, impression) as Tolkien did.

Frodo was alive but taken by the enemy.

Anyway, as it was, they had so much to put into the RotK when it came about that they had to cut short Sam's struggle and sorrow at his death. That is one of the most dramatic and sad parts in the entire trilogy, and to cut it short to the point where even I hardly cried at the theater when I saw it is really pathetic. They had done it like it was supposed to have been done, in the TT, then they would have had time.

I think what PJ was hoping to capture with Shelob at the start of RotK was instant excitement and energy. Show how perilous Mordor is.

Shelob wasn't even part of Mordor. And next to that, she's not even at the beginning of the movie. At the beginning of their part in the movie, Frodo turns Sam off and sends him home like a dog.

Besides, the danger of Mordor wasn't really in getting caught by orcs, but dying of thirst and hunger and being caught by the eye...they did a good job with that, but I don't think that he needed Shelob to help with protraying the danger of Mordor.

[Balin999]

I agree with eomer. Shelob should have been in TTT.
But then, I think that the only acceptable of the three movies is FotR.
The unnecessary changes in TTT made me so angry that I wanted to leave the theatre when I first saw it.
Come on, Haldir in Helms Deep? And then he dies like in a bad western with Aragorn screaming "HAAAAAALDIIIIIIIIIIR" (imagine hearing that in slow-motion)

And then Faramir who is a much wiser person than his brother turns out to be a thread to Frodo.
It just sucks.

And then, as eomer said, the audience is left with gollum giving hints about Shelob.
And I agree, the part of Helms depp should have been shorter. and he could have left out that ridicolous Robin Hood scene of Legolas.
Ok I'll stop now...

Shelob for TTT!

[drigel]

i would have welcomed anything that would have freed up the space to put the Scouring back in RotK

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

O drigel, you are inviting a furious backlash by suggesting adding the Scouring. (I'm with you, though!)

Folwren brings up another point which I had forgotten: Sam's grief. In all honesty this could have been one of the saddest scenes in cinematic history. As it turned out, it was merely ok and ridiculously short.

I am slightly puzzled by mormegil's thoughts: that people might not like the 'Frodo-captured' ending for being too dramatic and intense. Well, was the boring 'Gollum-mutters' ending preferable? It was certainly an intensity-killer. I don't think it satisfied.