Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[littlemanpoet]

I haven't checked yet, so I may be all wet, but if Mithalwen is going with (1) only 12 villagerse, (2) 5 gifted innocents, and (3) multiple lynchings, I'll be interested to see how long the werewolves last. They won't win. You see, that means there's 9 innocents villagers, 5 gifted and 4 ungifted; gifted outnumber ungifted. That's already advantage to the villagers. Throw in multiple lynchings and it's just a matter of time before the werewolves are found out. Check out the odds for yourselves.

[the guy who be short]

lmp, Mith isn't having multiple lynchings.

Anywho, I think in smaller games multiple lynchings don't work, but they could work in larger games. I'd dislike phantom-style number manipulation though.

[Oddwen]

LMP - there are only four Gifteds. Seer, Hunter and Guardian are indelibly good, but the Mythomaniac could end up as good or evil. Which = Cool.

[the phantom]

But I would hate to see the Seer dream of one innocent, and have everyone circle-vote so that everyone dies, and have the village win by default.

It can't work like that. It's not that simple.

For one thing, the person the seer declared innocent is not a proven innocent until the seer dies, so no one (including me) would be willing to fully trust that someone is innocent until the seer dies.

For another thing, it only takes one wolf to step out of line and keep the multiple lynching from occuring, therefore the other wolves would remain hidden and the game would continue.

The circular voting technique should only catch one wolf per day if the wolves play correctly. Therefore, if there are not enough proven innocents to last for three days worth of voting, the circular voting technique is not an end all strategy.

Is anyone else not too fond of the multiple lynchings?

Does anyone else think that this makes the game less fun?

Numerical logic takes away much of the fun

I'd dislike phantom-style number manipulation though.

So it appears that everyone wants to make brains as small a factor as possible.

Do we really want to do that- to make the games more... stupid? But then, I suppose many people equate stupid with fun, so I guess I can understand the reasoning, though I find it revolting.

Also, adding a rule that keeps the villagers from utilizing their superior numbers as well as the dreams of the seer is a really bad idea. Population advantage and seer dreams are by far and away the largest assets a village has, and so ruling out a strategy based upon these advantages is sort of like adding an extra werewolf to the game.

Is everyone wanting to help the wolves or something? Why? Because the villagers finally won a game? Are we wanting to return to the days of endless werewolf domination?

Or does everyone just hate strategy, and would prefer to run around like a headless chicken and make random accusations and lynch people because you, for some unknown reason, think they are guilty? And at the end do you want to shake the werewolves' hands and congratulate them on winning for the tenth straight time? And then you will tell everyone "Well, we could have won that game by employing a good strategy, but I'm glad we didn't, because ten pages of mindless yammering is way way better than thinking and such!"

Just in case my hints haven't been strong enough, I believe that multiple lynchings are a good thing.

(this rant was sponsored by the phantom inc, the opinions expressed are very true but not necessarily the opinions of all of phantom's friends and associates, make sure and watch next week's episode during which phantom will express his opinions on strategic Candyland gameplay)

The exciting thing about werewolf is that unless you are a rather unusual personality type, the whole thing is outside the comfort zone.

Well, I suppose that means that I am unusual.

[Holbytlass]

Originally Posted by the phantom

...I...equate stupid with fun,...

LOL-I'm sorry, it is totally out of context but I couldn't resist!!

Actually, the game ending on a first (or second) day circular lynching would never happen because of all the pages of debate about doing so or not. The mass lynching was brilliant and didn't detract from the game to me. I'm of the opinion that anything is fun and neat to try at least once. It certainly gives each game variety.

[Saurreg]

Multiple lynching adds a new dimension to the game - a fun and exciting one. Anybody goes.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Fea

I was thinking of 24 hour days and 12 hour nights, but if that doesn't work for the majority, it can be tweaked.

I'm quite sure this won't work for the werewolves who live about ten time zones away. Just remember that there will be players who are all the way in Asia. *cough* *cough*

(Man, how pathetic is that? Stealing a place in VI when V hasn't even started!)

You can say that again, Eomer.

As for multiple lynchings...like most rules it could work to the advantage of both sides. Maybe multiple lynchings could be allowed, but there would be a maximum number of lynchings at a time. (Or the player who got the most votes first would be the one lynched? Nah.)

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Or does everyone just hate strategy ...

No, but if all the players understand it, the multiple lynching strategy is likely to be used in every game where the conditions are right, which would be rather dull.

... and would prefer to run around like a headless chicken and make random accusations and lynch people because you, for some unknown reason, think they are guilty?

Isn't that half the fun of the game?

Seriously, the fun of the game for me is in looking at what people say, trying to read bluffs and double-bluffs and voting (or killing) accordingly. If the game is simply reduced to a statistical exercise every time, then I think that it does become rather dull.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

I'm quite sure this won't work for the werewolves who live about ten time zones away. Just remember that there will be players who are all the way in Asia. *cough* *cough*

Would 24 hours and 24 hours work better? That had been my initial idea, but I thought that it would slow the game down quite a lot. Other mods dealt with that by allowing the extra time, but if it was finished early, they would begin the next set of times. I can't guarantee that I'll be sitting near a computer when the voting finishes, unpredictable as it is, or when all of the PMs stream in, which is why I had aimed for set times so that I would know when to continue each day.

To clarify my view on multiple lynchings (this is mostly so the phantom stops whining):

They are a fantastic idea. It is a great way of securing a victory when you've got the right circumstances. My previous statement was a generality (*glares at tp*). I know that you could not have a conclusive and finalizing vote on day one. However I would hate to see what The Barrow-Wight referred to initially as

a game of accusation, deduction, lying, reverse psychology and bandwagoning

turn into a game of numerical logic. Quite frankly, instead of a game where we search out werewolves using our instincts and their screwups, I can see the game morphing into one where every player tries their best to confuse the phantom. As hilarious as that would be, it takes away from the point of the game.

Where I can understand the strategy involved in mass lynchings, I do not desire to see them employed as a given occurence in every game. Therefore, as the [potential] mod of Werewolf VI (subtitle yet unknown), my formal statement is this:

Originally Posted by THE ALL-POWERFUL MOD

Multiple lynchings are allowed. You can use them as often as you want. But as a means of discouraging their use, any deaths thereby produced will be intentionally boring, inapplicable to the situation, and/or lame.

EDIT:

Clarification: You can die in a mass death, but if you do, your death will suck. If you want to go in an interesting way that is not along the lines of

And then, looking around boredly, The Barrow-Wight, Estelyn, and Bethberry all dropped dead seemingly of their own accord. "Oh shucks" muttered one of the villagers... "Looks like they were all innocent."

then you want to bandwagon, back-stab, and follow intuition a little more.

By the way, Fea, in the event that you do get to moderate Werewolf VI, will you be having shiriffs as tgwbs had, or will you adopt Mith's rule of allowing the Hunter and the Ranger to know each other's identities?

There will be shirriffs as tgwbs had them.

Gil- Mith's game, last I knew, begins this afternoon.