Rocks, Hard Places, etc.... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

the phantom · 07-19-2005, 10:59 AM

Forgive me if I am just repeating things that others have said, but I have barely read the thread and I won't have time to for the next week or so (I'm on vacation and I only have about five minutes on my cousin's computer before I have to run off and do something touristy).

I think you can have free will and fate at the same time.

Let's say that there is something that needs to happen in Middle Earth- something that is supposed to happen.

So, Eru decides to take care of it. In Tolkien's world, people's spirits/souls come from Eru, so He is the one that determines their personality, nature, and such.

So if he needs a certain task to be completed, he can simply tweak someone so that they will end up doing the task of their own free will.

The person has free will and can choose whatever they want, it's just that Eru already knows exactly what they are going to choose because he knows what sort of spirit he gave them and how events would shape their decision.

So if Eru wants something done, he designs someone with a certain blend of character that will bring about the desired result.

If you know what someone is going to do it does not mean he doesn't have free will- it just means that you know what he is going to do with his free will ahead of time.

Make sense?

Feanor of the Peredhil · 07-19-2005, 11:19 AM

Nope.

the phantom · 07-19-2005, 11:41 AM

Then read it again.

Kath · 07-19-2005, 11:58 AM

No phantom I don't get it. You say that there is free will because they can choose the path they go down but then you say that Eru can tweak their souls to make them go down a certain path. Then surely it's impossible to do both?

View Poll Results: Is there free will in Middle-Earth?
Yes	29	58.00%
No	3	6.00%
Probably both	18	36.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

07-19-2005, 10:59 AM	#1
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	Forgive me if I am just repeating things that others have said, but I have barely read the thread and I won't have time to for the next week or so (I'm on vacation and I only have about five minutes on my cousin's computer before I have to run off and do something touristy). I think you can have free will and fate at the same time. Let's say that there is something that needs to happen in Middle Earth- something that is supposed to happen. So, Eru decides to take care of it. In Tolkien's world, people's spirits/souls come from Eru, so He is the one that determines their personality, nature, and such. So if he needs a certain task to be completed, he can simply tweak someone so that they will end up doing the task of their own free will. The person has free will and can choose whatever they want, it's just that Eru already knows exactly what they are going to choose because he knows what sort of spirit he gave them and how events would shape their decision. So if Eru wants something done, he designs someone with a certain blend of character that will bring about the desired result. If you know what someone is going to do it does not mean he doesn't have free will- it just means that you know what he is going to do with his free will ahead of time. Make sense? __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

07-19-2005, 11:19 AM	#2
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Nope. __________________ peace

07-19-2005, 11:41 AM	#3
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	Then read it again. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

07-19-2005, 11:58 AM	#4
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	No phantom I don't get it. You say that there is free will because they can choose the path they go down but then you say that Eru can tweak their souls to make them go down a certain path. Then surely it's impossible to do both? __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

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