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Old 08-03-2005, 07:32 PM   #1
mark12_30
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I have been waiting for someone else to accept Thenamir's challenge, though Mister Underhill's reaction did give me a bit of a chuckle. And since I am firmly in the "Author's Intention Plus Readers Experience Plus Glimpse Of Divine Truth With A Capital T" Camp, I thought somebody in the "Author's Intent" camp should do this. But nobody has taken a crack at it yet.

I cannot seriously be the only one in this debate with a copy of Letters????

Since the silence (on this topic) is resounding (so far), I will answer Thenamir's first question with another question: Which reference, sir, would you like to see first? I cannot choose. Here are the possibilities, in the ever-so-handy index, under Lord Of The Rings, Contents, author's intentions.

(No, I did not type all this in. Praise Iluvatar for scanners, eh?)

Quote:
Contents, author's intentions: written to please himself 211,412;
written to amuse, excite, move reader 232-3, 414; a fairy-story for adults 209, 232-3; attempt to induce literary or secondary belief 233,379,412; an exciting story of the sort Tolkien enjoys 267, 297; experiment in arts of long narrative 412; not a novel, but a heroic romance 414; attempt to create world in which a form of language agreeable to his personal aesthetic might seem real 264-5; largely an essay in 'linguistic aesthetic' 220; no 'message' intended 267; not an allegory 41, 121,212,220,239, 246, 262; does not 'objectify Tolkien's experience of life 239; primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power 160; not an allegory of Atomic power, but of Power 246; Power and Domination not at centre 246, 262, 284; centre is not in strife and war and heroism but in freedom, peace, ordinary life and good liking 105; journey of Ringbearers heart of the tale 271; deeds of the small, humble, their ennoblement or sanctification 160, 215,220,232, 237, 246, 365; the Quest in 105, 191, 233-4, 238-9; LR in terms of good and evil 11920,121,178-9,197,207,243-4, 262; real theme is death and immortality 246, 262, 267, 284; mainly concerned with relation of Creation to making and subcreation, and related matter of 'mortality' 188; fundamentally religious and catholic work 172; cut out practically all references to 'religion' 172, 220; theological implications in 187-95,233-5, 355; monotheistic world of 'natural theology' 220; sanity and sanctity in LR; Ring verse as leit-motif of LR 153; poetry in 169, 186,396; verses fitted in style and contents to characters and situations 396; archaism in 225-6; vocabulary 249; deliberately left some things unexplained 174, 190; Tolkien does not himself know all the answers 278; better not to state everything, more like real history 354; must concentrate on small part so much will be left out 192; frameless picture, searchlight on brief episode 412; need to omit and compress 289, 293; blends Elvish and human point of view 145; seen mainly through eyes of Hobbits 160,200,237,246; love stories in 160-1,227,323-4; importance of seasons in 271-2; its end like the re-establishment of a Holy Roman Empire with seat in Rome 376 Sources 208, 212, 303, 418; for names etc. 379-87,409-10, 418; main idea not a product of World War II 216; no post-war references 235; his mythology 227,231
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Last edited by mark12_30; 08-03-2005 at 07:52 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 08-03-2005, 08:55 PM   #2
Thenamir
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Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Unbelievable! Actual new Tolkien references which are not all repeats of the same "allegory versus applicability" citation! All hail mark12_30, Praise Her With Great Praise!

We now have some definitive text to work with. And since her list seems to be quite exhaustive, I will have great fun now reading them all and deciding which ones with which to skewer people with. Great thanks to you, mark12_30. We could all take a lesson from your post.
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