Werewolf IIX - Tra la la lally, here down in the Saga, ha ha!

[arcticstorm]

We need not be too quick in making accusations today. especially not until we have seen what everyone has to say, just maybe the wolves are waiting for us to start accusing eachother,before they come and put there own two cents worth in. Today of all days is not a day for hasty actions. and those who seem guilty at first may be as innocent as a newborn. And those who appear to be innocent, may in fact be rotten to the core.

Do not persons often err about good and evil: Many who are not good seem to be so, and conversely?
Bear this in mind as we try to find out who our real enemies are

[SamwiseGamgee]

articstorm, your 'shades of grey' argument does not wash with me. During my many years of lupine study I have learned one very important thing: werewolves are evil, and there are no two ways about it!

For most of my life I have toiled and worked to gain a better understanding of Wargs, and in doing so my path has often crossed that of a werewolf- not without a shudder running down my spine I hasten to add. One thing I have learned above all else, and this we must agree upon fellow friends of Hamlet: werewolves ARE NOT people. They are cold, vicious, systematic killers whose sole aim in life is to bring pain, misery and suffering upon all those they come across. The fact that by day they mascarade as friendly villagers cannot be allowed to dim our vision.

Gurthang, I find your opinions worrying. Tell me friend, how do you hope to approach a werewolf, his breath still strong with the odour of dear, precious Oddwen's blood and seek a peaceful solution? Your way is folly, Gurthang! Explain yourself, or you shall leave me no option but to call for your death!

[Encaitare]

Werewolves! I knew something was amiss, I knew it... but no one listens to me anyway...

So they got Oddwen, did they? I didn't like her. But only because she didn't like me. No one gives a rat's behind about me anymore -- O, my lost love! Why, oh why did you have to listen to the prattle of that stupid wizard?

Ahem. The trick, I think, will be to get over it and try to sort out who these barely-literate wolves (not to mention this abnormally-sized bear) are. What? Don't think I can't hear you whispering behind your hands. I'm dejected, not deaf. You don't see me getting over anything, you say? Well, you all haven't had your hearts broken, have you? Have you?

I didn't think so.

I don't like these things Gurthang over there is saying. Tripe, if you ask me. That littlemanbaker might have a good idea in lynching Gurthang Wolf-Friend.

EDIT: Cross-posted with the ex-miner.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Patience, Encaitare. There are still villagers who have to post. I too am suspicious of Gurthang's apparent love of these murderous beasts, but as t'old boy Saucepan said, we should be loathe to jump hastily decisions. Aafter all, do you want to wake up in the morning with the blood of an innocent villager on your hands because you jumped to a hasty conclusion? Verily I say, in such a situation you are no better than the werewolf yourself.

[Boromir88]

Originally posted by The Sauce Pan Man: But that is exactly what we should be doing. We must look carefully at what everybody says and judge all by their words.

Perhaps you have misunderstood. Of course we want to go after these beasts, but the key word is "irrational," not turning this into a mob of poking fingers and a mass hysteria. There can be an orderly way to do it.

Gurthang, I must say your words are rather suspicious, are you suggesting that we just let this go? Not hunt after the Werewolves and apparently a bear that has murdered Lady Oddwen? This is exactly what we have, a murder, and we must find who these things are and lynch 'em.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

The trouble is Mr Pan Man is that what is there to say so early in proceedings? Unless anyone has concrete evidence, our choice will be random, at best based on hunch or suspicion.

I agree that all we have at present is hunch and suspicion but we should use them to arrive at a conclusion which is at least sensible, even though it may turn out to be wrong.

Alas due to my well known posting schedule, I will perhaps not be able to speak enough or frequently to satisfy you ...

I would not necessarily regard someone who only makes a handful of contributuons as supicious. I am far more concerned with the content of what is said. If people cannot participate frequently, so be it. But they should at least make some attempt at sensible analysis when doing so. It is only in our foes' interests to make "content-lite" contributions. As an example of such, I would cite Durelin's first post. And that's not an accusation, you understand. I am merely using it for illustrative purposes at present.

A question though. If someone knows that they will not be able to vote later in the day, is it better, if they are innocent, for them to vote when they can or simply not to vote that day? I have my own thoughts, but would welcome the views of others.

And to add something further which I hope may contribute to the discussion, is it not the case that acting with obvious suspicion on the first day is most un-Werewolf like behaviour? It might be a double-bluff, but a very dangerous one on Day 1, when anything vaguely suspicious is picked up on. It may be Cobbler behaviour, but I would prefer to bag a Wolf or two or a Bear first before turning my attention to the Cobbler.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Perhaps you have misunderstood. Of course we want to go after these beasts, but the key word is "irrational," not turning this into a mob of poking fingers and a mass hysteria.

My objection was to your counselling against starting a wolf-hunt. I agree that we should approach this rationally. But a wolf-hunt is precisely what we are now engaged on.

(And let's not foget that Bear. Bagging him or her will reduce our exposure during the Night.)

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Alcarillo

I too am a bit suspicious of Gurthang and his hasty vote ...

It was LMP who voted hastily for Gurthang, Alc. Methinks that you have been indulging rather too much in your own fine beer.

To clarify, which one is it that you are casting vague suspicion on?

I see that dancing spawn anticipated my question about voting early. My own view is that it depends how much has been said already. LMP's very early vote is supicious, but would a Wolf act that suspiciously on the first Day?

[Mithalwen]

Well trying to guess the degree of bluff is just mindspinning. It may be an error to dig too deeply and ignore the obvious. Personally if push came to shove, I would vote in better conscience for someone who had acted suspiciously than someone who hadn't - in the absence of something more definite. Also getting the cobbler would be a better result for the village than lynching an innocent. Remember the cobbler's aim is to help the wolves, is it not.....?

AS for the not voting thing ... well much as my instinct goes against casting a vote before all the evidence and opinions have been heard, my schedule means that my first chance real chance speak on weekdays is at 1pm BST ie noon GMT the moment when the day/night begins. I then have an hour and a few hours potentially after work. I will try to get in early enough to check before work but realistically there may not be enough time to make a good call. I could end up never voting if I took the more "ethical" stance of not voting early. That would be a dereliction of the duty to vote. Maybe I should have sat this one out but I didn't realise the timing implication and there really isn't anything I can do about it short of quitting my job. In the circumstances I think it better to vote early than not vote at all. It would be arrogant for me to think that I would be so influential that those around later would find my vote more persuasive than evidence that came to light after I voted, knowing my situation. With 20 living villagers quite a few vote will be needed surely to hang someone. If I make it to the later stages I will obviously rethink (and if I must set the alarm even earlier ...)

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by arcticstorm

We need not be too quick in making accusations today. especially not until we have seen what everyone has to say

But if anybody doesn't accuse anyone there won't be anything to say.

Originally Posted by lmp

I'm having an attack of laryngitis and won't be able to communicate properly for I don't know how long, so I'm just going to vote now. Yes, it's totally <urk> random, but what else do you expect on Day One?

Maybe it wouldn't have been so random if you had waited until nightfall...or if you hadn't voted at all. This little vote of yours might make others suspect Gurthang, too. Wether the suspicion is undue or not, I don't know.

But really, Gurthang, put the animal rights aside and think of our human rights!

[Alcarillo]

*Pushes more beer into Saucepan Man's hands*

I too am a bit suspicious of Gurthang and his hasty vote, but I myself don't have enough proof of his guilt to convince me.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

There can be an orderly way to do it.

But how? I suppose we just wait for everybody to say something a few times to hear their opinion. Any other ideas? This first day will be the most difficult without any clues.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by dancing spawn of ungoliant

But if anybody doesn't accuse anyone there won't be anything to say. Maybe it wouldn't have been so random if you had waited until nightfall...or if you hadn't voted at all. This little vote of yours might make others suspect Gurthang, too. Wether the suspicion is undue or not, I don't know.

Your first point is very true Dancing Spawn, but your second is harsh on those of us who cannot be "in the village square" (online) frequently during the day. Not to vote may cast suspicion on oneself and few are going to be noble enough to risk that rather than cast suspicion on another, even if it is premature. (I am aware of this dilemma particularly because the fixed length day timeframe means (if I survive) I am almost certainly going to have to cast my vote relatively early. ) NB if this bit belongs in the other thread - my apologies and I will move it).

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Mith

Your first point is very true Dancing Spawn, but your second is harsh on those of us who cannot be "in the village square" (online) frequently during the day.Not to vote may cast suspicion on oneself and few are going to be noble enough to risk that rather than cast suspicion on another

I don't blame him. I'm just making observations. It seemed to me that he don't really care if he's making himself look questionable.

Originally Posted by lmp

If that looks suspicious, so be it.

Originally Posted by SpM

And let's not foget that Bear. Bagging him or her will reduce our exposure during the Night.

I'd say it's our primary goal to lynch the bear. As long as there are wolves and a bear around, we lose two good villagers a night (unless they attack each other).