The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-13-2005, 01:16 PM   #1
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh
Spectre of Decay
 
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bar-en-Danwedh
Posts: 2,178
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh is a guest at the Prancing Pony.The Squatter of Amon Rûdh is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Send a message via AIM to The Squatter of Amon Rûdh
Pipe Amon Hen

You can find that answer in The Lord of the Rings without too much trouble.

Quote:
'Behold Tol Brandir!' said Aragorn, pointing south to the tall peak. 'Upon the left stands Amon Lhaw, and upon the right is Amon Hen, the Hills of Hearing and of Sight. In the days of the great kings there were high seats upon them, and watch was kept there.

The Fellowship of the Ring, p.410
Then later.

Quote:
He was sitting upon the Seat of Seeing, on Amon Hen, the Hill of the Eye of the Men of Númenor.

The Fellowship of the Ring, p.416
An earlier draft of this passage is more obvious in its meaning:

Quote:
But also he sat now upon the seat of Sight which the men of Númenor had made.

HoME VII: The Treason of Isengard, p.374
From what Frodo experiences of its powers in The Fellowship of the Ring, I would guess that the seat simply allows one who sits in it to see widely, but probably not in the same way as the Palantíri. I seems as though the seat of Seeing simply makes the world seem smaller rather than allowing one to view distant events in detail or communicate over large distances. There is also a suggestion that the Ring enhances the seat's powers, which could account for the similarity.

The reference to a watch being kept on Amon Lhaw and Amon Hen suggests that on the two hills one sentry would listen and another look for danger to the Númenorean realms in exile, which I would guess is the reason for the properties described in FotR. Don't forget that the Númenoreans, with whom Tolkien associates the two seats, were almost as skilled as the Elves in such work.
__________________
Man kenuva métim' andúne?
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 03:56 PM   #2
Lalaith
Blithe Spirit
 
Lalaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,779
Lalaith is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Lalaith is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
I believe, although I don't have the texts to hand, that the three rings were made, and presumably used and worn, before the Alliance. The making of the Three seemed to coincide with the unmasking of Sauron by Celebrimbor at Eregion.
As for this:
Quote:
On foot even Glorfindel and Aragorn together could not with stand all the Nine at once
I think we cannot read too many "power comparisons" in to this comment, between the various elves in LotR - it must be taken in the context of what the reader does and does not know at this point in the narrative.
At the point in the story that Gandalf says this, we have not yet met Galadriel and know very little of Cirdan. Elrond is clearly not going to leave Rivendell and so there is no question of him confronting the Nine on the road.
__________________
Out went the candle, and we were left darkling
Lalaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 04:03 PM   #3
Joy
Spirit of a Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wandering
Posts: 1,012
Joy has just left Hobbiton.
Also, on the comment of Glorfindel's strenght, I am sure that given the timing of this narative, he wouldn't show his full strenght.

Like Gandalf, being a maiar, had been given restraints concerning the amount of power that he could show forth - maybe Glorfindel had some of these restraints given to him.
__________________
God bless,
Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com
http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com

As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?
Joy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 09:11 PM   #4
Gorthaur the Cruel
Wight
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mordor
Posts: 150
Gorthaur the Cruel has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
I believe, although I don't have the texts to hand, that the three rings were made, and presumably used and worn, before the Alliance. The making of the Three seemed to coincide with the unmasking of Sauron by Celebrimbor at Eregion.
I've always wondered the same thing. It was hundreds of years before the One could be completed & the Three have already been completed. Who bore the Three before Gil-Galad & Galadriel? Or perhaps Celebrimbor hoarded it.
__________________
I am Annatar, the Lord of Gifts.
Gorthaur the Cruel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2005, 10:22 PM   #5
Legolas
A Northern Soul
 
Legolas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,847
Legolas has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Who bore the Three before Gil-Galad & Galadriel?
No one.
__________________
...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.
Legolas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2005, 03:02 PM   #6
Gorthaur the Cruel
Wight
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mordor
Posts: 150
Gorthaur the Cruel has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legolas
No one.
That's impossible. It specifically says that when Sauron chanted the incantations (i.e. One Ring to rule them all...), the Elves (who were these "elves") became aware of him & took their rings off. Surely that would imply that somebody held the Three before Gil-Galad & Galadriel. Galadriel was in Lorinand & Gil-Galad was in Lindon.
__________________
I am Annatar, the Lord of Gifts.
Gorthaur the Cruel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2005, 03:19 PM   #7
Joy
Spirit of a Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wandering
Posts: 1,012
Joy has just left Hobbiton.
Celebrimbor made the 3 rings and gave them to Gil-galad, Cirdan, and to Galadriel.

At the time that Sauron had made his ring, even though they were apart, they could sense the power of his and took theirs off. They also had means of Osanwe Kenta. They could have spoken this way.
__________________
God bless,
Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com
http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com

As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?
Joy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2005, 03:05 AM   #8
Marky Lazer
Haunting Spirit
 
Marky Lazer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 82
Marky Lazer has just left Hobbiton.
Question

Were the Nazgul immortal?
__________________
There are two kind of people. Those who have read Tolkien, and those who are going to read Tolkien.
Marky Lazer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2005, 02:29 AM   #9
Marky Lazer
Haunting Spirit
 
Marky Lazer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 82
Marky Lazer has just left Hobbiton.
Thumbs up

Maybe it's interesting for anyone, but to provide you with the answer to my own question:

I can't think of any point where this is addressed directly, but I think it's possible to have a fairly good guess at the answer.

In Tolkien's universe, mortality is a special gift from Eru, and it's outside the power even of the Valar to remove that gift. If the Valar can't achieve this, then certainly it should be impossible for Sauron to make a mortal being into an immortal one. This ties in, I think, with Bilbo's comments about the long life granted him by the Ring - 'Why, I feel all thin, sort of stretched, if you know what I mean: like butter that has been scraped over too much bread.' (The Fellowship of the Ring I 1). In other words, his mortal lifespan has been unnaturally extended, but he's still a mortal being (as stated explicitly in Tolkien's letters).

I think the same effect must apply to the Nazgûl, too (and also Gollum, of course). The Rings of Power clearly granted a greatly extended lifespan to those under their power, but they seem to have remained essentially mortal.

I hope that's of some help.

Kind regards
Mark Fisher
__________________
There are two kind of people. Those who have read Tolkien, and those who are going to read Tolkien.
Marky Lazer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2005, 12:27 AM   #10
DarkLordSauron
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
The Watchers

Could the watchers that sam saw may have been the two blue wizards
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2005, 01:23 AM   #11
The 1,000 Reader
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: I don't know. Eastern ME doesn't have maps.
Posts: 527
The 1,000 Reader is still gossiping in the Green Dragon.
Possibly, but not likely. Tolkien would have mentioned something about them if they were.
__________________
"And forth went Morgoth, and he was halted by the elves. Then went Sauron, who was stopped by a dog and then aged men. Finally, there came the Witch-King, who destroyed Arnor, but nobody seems to remember that."

-A History of Villains
The 1,000 Reader is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:48 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.