Who would have fallen?

[Elladan and Elrohir]

I think one key component that some if not all of you are leaving out is the power of the Ring. Let us be clear. In the end, at the Crack of Doom, NO ONE could resist it. No one. Not Gandalf, not Aragorn, and as we see in the book, not Frodo. The will of the Ring rules supreme. Indeed, though Tolkien may think differently (and he has every right to be wrong if he wants to, ), I think that the way everything happened in the book was the ONLY WAY it could have happened, for the Ring to be destroyed.

Things could not have happened differently than they did in the books. Yes, I suppose you can still ask "what if" but in reality there is no "if." IF the Fellowship does not break, then Merry and Pippin will not spark the wrath of the Ents on Isengard, and Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, and Gandalf will not heal King Theoden and win the Battle of the Hornburg. In which case Isengard will conquer Rohan and attack Gondor. Since Gondor does not have the aid of Gandalf and Aragorn, or of Rohan for that matter, it will fall quickly. And when that time comes, there is no longer any hope.

The Fellowship HAD to break. If it did not, Middle-earth was doomed. Boromir, in trying to take the Ring from Frodo, was saving Middle-earth, though unknowingly. The will of Eru prevails.

OK, I've given the lecture, you all have sat back and listened patiently, now continue with the discussion. It's still fun to ponder "what ifs" like this one. I have not made up my mind, but Fordim's argument for Gandalf currently seems very strong. Pray continue!

[the phantom]

Fordim has made a good case for Gandalf, and I'd like to try and add to it a bit.

In TTT, The White Rider, Gandalf says-

"War is upon us and all our friends, a war in which only the use of the Ring could give us surety of victory....'
He rose and gazed out eastward, shading his eyes, as if he saw things far away that none of them could see. Then he shook his head. 'No', he said in a soft voice, 'it has gone beyond our reach. Of that at least let us be glad. We can no longer be tempted to use the Ring.

It seems to me that a part of him wishes the Ring was still around, just in case. That's how Gandalf's temptation would begin, correct? It would start as better not let the Ring get too far away- just in case, and then when crossing into Mordor in would move to don't take the Ring, but be ready to grab it- just in case, and by the time Gandalf got to Mount Doom the voice might be saying you know Frodo won't be able to destroy it when he gets there- he couldn't even throw it into his fireplace in the Shire. You had better take it now.

And since, as Fordim said, Gandalf's purpose is to counter Sauron, I imagine that being in the heart of Mordor and feeling the massive weight of Sauron's power, Gandalf would be extremely tempted to do something to boost his own power in an attempt to match his opponent.

And when Gandalf says "only the use of the Ring could give us surety of victory", isn't he showing the influence the Ring has on him? I will explain.

In Tolkien's letter 246 where he talks about good guys using the Ring to beat Sauron, he states that the Ring purposefully made people think they could be more powerful than truly possible (think of Gollum, Galadriel, and Sam's temptation). Tolkien does not give Galadriel much of a chance of winning force versus force and no chance whatsoever of winning one on one and actually destroying Sauron (JRRT said one-on-one was not even contemplated). The only person he mentioned that might win was Gandalf, and it was far from being a guarantee, which clearly means that the Ring would not give "surety of victory".

And so, when Gandalf makes his "surety" statement he is showing his temptation to use the Ring, because he is placing more faith in it than he should. It has become overly valuable to him.

[HerenIstarion]

Originally Posted by HerenIstarion

I wish there were an entry for 'no one'

I stand by what I've said. This is 'what if' kind of poll, ain't it?

Suffering from hardships of the lone wandering, captivity, hunger and Shelob's venom, Frodo managed to carry the Ring to the very end. Guided by a ranger, morally and bodily supported by his companions, not gnawed by doubt and hesitation, inspired by Gandalf with Narya (and probably having healthy diet of lembas in abundant quantities ), Frodo would be less prone to 'succumbing'.

I know the counter arguments. I believe he would have given in anyway, but in 'what if' kind of poll, possibility of 'no one' should have been accounted for

Besides, it is not correct to place them all in line an ask away - it is Frodo who stands direct attack of temptation, other get aftereffects, no more. Fair way would be to imagine each of them in turn being appointed Ring-Bearer and than speculate. What if Gimli was appointed by the Council to carry it? What if Legolas was appointed... etc

[The Saucepan Man]

I don't hold with this "X had the chance and didn't seize the Ring" argument. I think that we can all agree that, in terms of vulnerability to the lure of the Ring, Boromir was the weakest. So, we do not even begin to consider who would be next until following Boromir's attempt. Any opportunities that any of them may have had up to that point are irrelevant because they all would have resisted given the same opportunities. The primary reason being that (in my opinion), the Ring's power (and its need to "take action" to avoid destruction) grows in strength the closer that it gets to Mordor.

The question for me, therefore, is who would have been the next person to fall to the Ring's lure had they all stayed with Frodo on his Quest to Mordor. It is quite possible that none of them would have succumbed. I believe that they all would have succumbed eventually (with the possible exception of Gandalf, being as he is described as being equal in "power" to Sauron), given sufficient time and exposure but it is possible that they would have reached Mount Doom before the Ring had an opportunity to corrupt any of them. But, if I have to choose one (which this poll requires), then I choose Aragorn.

My reasons are stated in the link that I provided. My assumption was that the character in question would have to physically seize the Ring from (and therefore either rob or attack) Frodo, as Boromir did. I agree that if it came down to a question of who would (or should) have taken the Ring in the event of Frodo's death (or apparent death), then the analysis might be different.

I also identified the order in which I thought each member of the Fellowship would "fall", given sufficent time and exposure.

Originally Posted by Fordim Hedgethistle

...it just really boils my tea to see people who think that Aragorn could have taken the Ring. I mean, how can you think that after Faramir gave it up? Faramir! The ultimate pallid Aragorn-wannabe! If he can resist the Ring, Aragorn certainly can.

The point is that Faramir did not have anything like the exposure to the Ring that the Fellowship would have had if they had accompanied with Frodo on his Quest all the way to the Crack of Doom. Had you included Faramir as a "putative Fellowship member" I would have chosen him, as I agree that he would have "fallen" before Aragorn.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

The primary reason being that (in my opinion), the Ring's power (and its need to "take action" to avoid destruction) grows in strength the closer that it gets to Mordor.

Not sure about this. We have the Fellowship traveling with the Ring, and step by step they all get closer to Mordor. Boromir is affected, yet (as stated previously) I think the reason that he acted upon his desire at Parth Galen was that the Fellowship was at a crossroads. Boromir was soon to go East or West; the Ring was going East or West. Boromir tried to get the Ring to go West; the Ring most likely wanted to go East - why would it have wanted to go West (but that's an idea for another thread)? Anyway, my point is that the Ring's influence at Parth Galen was X.

So Sam and Frodo continue to approach Mordor, and then they are joined by Gollum. We are told that the Ring's power and influence is increasing as it approaches the Crack. We have three individuals by which we can measure this increase in power of the Ring. Unluckily our subjects are all of the same type (hobbits**).

Sam seems to be unaffected by the Ring's power. Don't remember a moment when he thought of taking it from Frodo - and after a moment of hesitation even returns it to Frodo. Yes, I know that he wanted to help Frodo carry it, yet I never read that as Sam wanting to possess the Ring - he just wanted to lighten his master's burden. Sam is present when the Ring is in the heart of Mordor, yet he is no more affected than when at Parth Galen.

Gollum wants the Ring back - he's a bit of a 'one note'. Now that he knows who carries it, and its location, he wants it more. Yet I did not read that Gollum wanted the Ring more at Cirith Ungol or when near the Black Gate or when in Ithilien when the three were 'closer' to Orodruin than they ever would be before entering Mordor. Only at the end, when Gollum sees that his chances of recovering the Ring are at a crossroads, does he act. But was this due to the Ring's or Gollum's desire?

Frodo, unlike the others, is affected more as the Ring approaches Mordor.

So it would seem, based on this thin data, that the power and influence of the Ring did not increase beyond X except for the Bearer.


**Note that humans and other Free Folk may be affected differently and could experience serious side effects including headache, intestinal discomfort and delusions of grandeur. Please consult with your Wizard before using any Ring of Power.

[the phantom]

Sam seems to be unaffected by the Ring's power.

That might be because the Ring didn't care about tempting him. The Ring was content to work on Frodo and Gollum. The Ring wants the quickest way back to its master, and it knew that Sam was a sturdy little fellow that It would have to work on a bit to get him under control. It wasn't worth the effort.

Boromir, on the other hand...

If Boromir had taken the Ring it would've gotten back into Sauron's hands fairly quickly, because Boromir fully intended on using it against Sauron. There's no quicker way for Sauron to get the Ring back than for someone to stand up and say "I have your Ring and I'm going to defeat you!"

The Ring would try and tempt people who had that sort of attitude- people who would use the Ring.

Sam and Frodo (probably hobbits in general) were not the type to try and use the Ring to contest with Sauron. When Sam had the Ring and the Ring tempted him to challenge Sauron, Sam knew he wasn't powerful enough. Here are his thoughts from ROTK when the Ring was in his possession-

He felt that he had from now on only two choices: to forbear the Ring, though it would torment him; or to claim it, and challenge the Power that sat in its dark hold... Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dur... but also deep down in him lived still unconquered his plain hobbit-sense: he knew in the core of his heart that he was not large enough...

Notice two things-
1) Sam's thoughts are much like Galadriel and Boromir's when they are tempted. They all see themselves overthrowing Sauron. That proves that the Ring can have the same sort of effect on those surrounding the bearer as it does on the actual bearer.
2) When it comes down to it, Sam doesn't think he is capable, therefore he is unlikely to make the attempt. Galadriel and Boromir on the other hand, because of their pride and power, seemed to believe that they were capable, and I believe that is why they were influenced second-hand by the Ring where as Sam really wasn't.

I think its completely possible that the Ring picks its targets, and tries to work on certain individuals. If Boromir wasn't there, who would the Ring have gone to work on?

When you consider Sam's temptation and his unconquered "hobbit sense", it seems unlikely that a hobbit would be the first to fall.

A hobbit (Frodo) took the Ring farther than anyone else could, a hobbit (Bilbo) gave the Ring up, and a hobbit (Sam) supported the Ring bearer to the end. Given the evidence, I think that Merry and Pippin would have fared as well as anyone.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I think its completely possible that the Ring picks its targets, and tries to work on certain individuals. If Boromir wasn't there, who would the Ring have gone to work on?

I thoroughly agree. And, if one discounts Gandalf (since he was on a level with Sauron and therefore could, as Tolkien suggests, potentially have mastered the Ring sufficiently to use it against him), who was the next most powerful member of the Fellowship, both physically and politically? The answer seems obvious to me.

Also, if we regard the Ring as a character in its own right (and I believe that we should), would it not take great glee in corrupting the descendant of he who separated it from its Master in the first place?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

I thoroughly agree. And, if one discounts Gandalf (since he was on a level with Sauron and therefore could, as Tolkien suggests, potentially have mastered the Ring sufficiently to use it against him), who was the next most powerful member of the Fellowship, both physically and politically? The answer seems obvious to me.

It isn't a question of power, either physically or politically. It is a question of self-knowledge, or rather, lack of self-knowledge.

Or are you suggesting that the Ring seeks out he who would provide the best bit of sport for him (assuming the Ring as a character is a he), which then might be someone nearer his/its/her own level of self-control/ knowledge. Is the Ring's delight in the sport or in the victory?

[Formendacil]

Turning back to the original question of the thread, and not the interesting, verbose discussion it has currently sidled into, I have to confess that I voted with Master Fordhim.

This is due, mainly, to reading the thread title, seeing it was a poll, reading the POLL, and making my selection- all before reading the initial post of Fordhim's.

As a general rule, I post before reading so that my opinion before anyone has a chance to affect it, is most clearly shown. That is, after all, the point of a poll.

Normally, this works well enough, but this time, I fear that my answer may be somewhat confused.

When I voted for Gandalf, I was answering the question of the POLL: "Which of the Fellowship would succumb to the Ring first?". I interpreted this in the sense of "if every member of the Fellowship was given a 'One Ring', who would succumb first?" And I stick by my answer. Gandalf had the greatest power and the greatest ambitions. If he were to receive a Ring (and not rid himself of it), he would turn to evil the most quickly.

However, I then read, to my chagrin, the question posed in the opening POST: "If the Fellowship remained together, who would crack next?"

This is, in my opinion of course, a very different question. Naturally, it assumes that Gandalf didn't fall in Moria, and that the Fellowship stuck together- assumptions that I am willing to make for the sake of discussion. However, my answer now changes drastically. If the Fellowship remained together, I do not think that it would be Gandalf who would go first, but rather, one of the younger hobbits. I think it would be Merry.

My reasoning is that the Ring would be putting out its siren call to ALL the Fellowship, but that Gandalf and Aragorn would be the most immune by reason of their very conscious decisions to refuse the Ring. Gandalf in Bag End, and Aragorn in Bree have both clearly refused to take the Ring. Legolas is an Elf who has pretty much no ambitions that we are shown, and is probably the best in the Fellowship at taking things on faith. "Gandalf said so, so it must be so." Gimli, as a Dwarf, has what might be called genetic immunity. He'd be tempted, but the Rings don't work all that well on Dwarves to begin with, as demonstrated by the Seven.

That leaves the three Hobbits. Sam is easily eliminated by his return of the Ring to Frodo in the RK- a giving up of the Ring not done by any other. Even Bilbo needed help.

We are now left with Merry and Pippin. For reasons given, many people seem to think that Pippin would go first. He is, after all, the less wise, more curious, and more foolhardy of the two. But I think it would be Merry.

The Ring would be more attractive to Merry. Merry is more worldwise, and knows more of what it could do. The temptations for him on that score would therefore be greater. Furthermore, Merry IS the closer friend to Frodo. Pippin is close, but Merry is closer. Merry knew him longer, for one thing, going back at least to the Party, and probably to Frodo's orphanage in Brandy Hall. What's more, Merry sometimes acts more like Frodo's caretaker. He worries more about Frodo's health than Pippin does. Pippin is a good deal more blythe about things. And I see the temptation striking Merry through his caring heart. Frodo wilted the closer they got to Mordor, and I don't see that being any easier for Merry than for Sam, but I CAN see Merry taking the Ring away out of compassion.

And don't anyone say that being a hobbit gives Merry immunity. Smeagol fell to the Ring's call at a glance. It's only AFTER the Ring has taken hold that being a hobbit adds any advantage.

However, based on the question that the POLL was asking, I still feel that Gandalf was the right answer. Even more than Boromir. If the Fellowship was all given Rings, somehow made to take them, and someone yelled "Ready, Set, GO!", I think Gandalf would have gone first. Boromir second. Aragorn third.

[davem]

I think the problem is that no-one apart from Gandalf & Aragorn could use the Ring more or less straight away. Any of the others would, as I pointed out earlier, have to 'train their minds' to its use - ie attune themselves to it. This would have taken a good while in the case of the Hobbits, Gimli, Legolas & even Boromir. If any of them had taken the Ring the others would have simply slapped them around & taken it & given it back to Frodo - & I include Legloas, Gimli & Boromir as 'slappees'.

So, we're not talking about who might desire the Ring but about who was a real threat if they had it. Only Gandalf & Aragorn were potential Ring users - both have a 'dark side' to their characters, & a willingness, in the 'right' circumstances to 'do what's necessary' - think back to their treatment of Gollum when they captured him. Both were 'ungentle' which we can only take to mean they were fairly brutal.

Yet we know that both Gandalf & Aragorn were aware enough of the danger the Ring presented not to go that way.

In short, no-one who was a potential Ring user was a potential Ring claimer. All those likely to fall were not strong enough to get away with taking it.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by davem

In short, no-one who was a potential Ring user was a potential Ring claimer. All those likely to fall were not strong enough to get away with taking it.

davem, though I understand your argument, I'm not sure that the Ring could successfully be reclaimed from one of the slappees. Gandalf was able to help Biblo let go of the Ring, yet this was many years and many miles from Bag End (e.g. they are now a lot closer to a more potent Sauron). Boromir unsuccessfully tried to take it from Frodo; what chance would someone, even Gandalf, have against one of the Fellowship who took the Ring to do something with it?

What if Boromir got the Ring from Frodo? Would Aragorn or Gandalf have been able to get it back? Would Boromir have run off to Minas Tirith with his prize, leaving the Fellowship to fend for themselves? Somehow I feel that if he did take the Ring, then he would have died shortly thereafter by misadventure.

Would Gandalf have to break 'one of the rules' to rend the Ring from Boromir? Would Aragorn have to kill him? What would or could they do against an invisible warrior?

Anyway, Merry and Pippin would have done something foolish after acquiring it (I don't see them as takers), and a storyline could have developed in which the Ring would have to be recovered from Orcs or something. Legolas, Gimli and Sam would not take the Ring, and if they did, they would give it back.

[Dimcollowen]

I agree i don't think Gandalf would have succombed to its power....althought it would be a lot stronger nearer to Suaron.
I know that Aragorn would never succomb the Ring...no matter what he or any else thinks.
I think that if Sam had taken it he would have just given it back to Frodo...and I think Frodo might have succombed to the Ring....he sort-of did by the end. (at Mt. Doom where he decides to keep the Ring.....)
Legolas i don't think would have fallen. Elves are powerful enough to be able to resist it. but you never know. If he had fallen and taken the RIng there would be numerous problems...i think that he Legolas had taken it he would have been able to wield it....not entirely but just alittle.
If Gimli got the Ring i have no clue what he would have done....I am not to sure would ever have fallen to the power of the RIng.
The ones I would definatley say would be Merry and Pippin. They wouldn't have known what to with it though so they probably would just pull pranks and stuff like that.

[Lyta_Underhill]

Legolas i don't think would have fallen. Elves are powerful enough to be able to resist it. but you never know. If he had fallen and taken the RIng there would be numerous problems...i think that he Legolas had taken it he would have been able to wield it....not entirely but just alittle.
If Gimli got the Ring i have no clue what he would have done....I am not to sure would ever have fallen to the power of the RIng.

I can't see Legolas OR Gimli falling right away, either. Legolas has to be the most humble elf I've ever seen, even with his proud words at the beginning. He learns easily and quickly, and bows to others (worthy others) with no qualms (i.e., the total nonexistence of any explicated possibility or even inkling in Legolas' mind of taking over Mirkwood/Eryn Lasgalen after his father). He seems to have no desire to rule even his own realm,though he is the heir of Thranduil. (Unless there are other siblings first in line I know nothing of, but I imagine them also playing Tra-la-la-lally with the addition of lots of wine...holdover from The Hobbit!).

Gimli is one over whom gold has no dominion, as Galadriel has noticed; what is more, Sauron had a whole lot of trouble bending the Dwarves to his will using the seven Dwarven Great Rings and just set himself to gather them up again. It is said Dwarves are slow to change and keep their affairs to themselves. I can't see them expanding their realms, unless it was someplace Dwarves had claimed, occupied and had been lost (i.e., Moria). Even then, in the hands of a Dwarf, the Ring would fare much the same as it did with Gollum, hoarded, hidden away, never to see the light of day.

As for Merry and Pippin, I could see Merry falling before Pippin, although I think Pippin would also fall eventually and possibly in an attempt to save Merry from the Ring. (Clarification: I think Merry is in deeper danger of falling, Pippin in more immediate but less complete danger, if that makes any sense.) Pippin wanted to stop Frodo from heading toward Mordor, and I imagine Merry would know more of the Ring than Pippin does, having observed its use even before Sam or Pippin (his surreptitious watching of Bilbo). I can see Merry having more concrete plans for the future at the time of the War of the Ring than Pippin, who is on the Quest to protect Frodo, because he cares for his friend. (This, BTW, looks like a mirror and an echo to his observations later of Beregond's daring deeds done for love of Faramir, during which time what is buried subconsciously in Pippin comes to conscious realization--at Rauros, however, he only knows he should stop Frodo because he is afraid for him.)

SPM's designation of the B-Team seems apt, as Pippin, having fewer 'plans' and dreams for application of power than Merry, would be the best choice to carry something as abstractly menacing as the Ring. However, he is also too immature at that point to resist properly (on second thought, I think Frodo had a bit of trouble with this himself!). Who can tell if Pippin would have heeded the striving of Gandalf with Sauron on Amon Hen--"take it off, fool!" as Frodo did at the last moment. One thing I do think is that he would have realized it was Gandalf, not necessarily in reality, but in a spiritual realm. Pippin and Gandalf have this very similar serendipity about them, and they are very connected--after all, Pippin is Gandalf's 'project.' Perhaps this is mere fancy, but there does seem to be something, a "Sixth Sense" if you will, behind Pippin's actions, like unto perhaps the extraordinary senses that Frodo gains through his carrying the Ring, and which Sam seems to have innately through his connection with the Earth.

One thing I could say is that Pippin, not having the harsh teachings that Frodo had already had on the road (or having had them only secondhand, as did everyone else) would not be nearly as equipped as Frodo to carry the Ring at this closer locale to Mordor. Pippin would have been more vulnerable, and if he had the Ring, he would make the same mistakes Frodo made earlier, but he wouldn't have the distance and time buffer that Frodo did, so it would be MUCH more dangerous. I hate to think of it! I'll stop now, but I wanted to put out these few thoughts!

Cheers!
Lyta

[davem]

Originally Posted by alatar

davem Boromir unsuccessfully tried to take it from Frodo; what chance would someone, even Gandalf, have against one of the Fellowship who took the Ring to do something with it?

What if Boromir got the Ring from Frodo? Would Aragorn or Gandalf have been able to get it back? Would Boromir have run off to Minas Tirith with his prize, leaving the Fellowship to fend for themselves? Somehow I feel that if he did take the Ring, then he would have died shortly thereafter by misadventure.

Would Gandalf have to break 'one of the rules' to rend the Ring from Boromir? Would Aragorn have to kill him? What would or could they do against an invisible warrior?

I don't think any member of the Fellowship could have taken the Ring & 'done anything with it'. It wasn't someting you could use instantly - as Galadriel points out to Frodo. I also suspect that Gandalf & very probably Aragorn could have overcome even an invisible Boromir. How long had Frodo borne the Ring - yet he still knew Boromir was strong enough to take it from him. You also have to take into account that the Ring did not call to just anybody - it was seeking Sauron & seemed to display some degree of intelligence. I'd say that only someone who had 'mastered' it (ie become enslaved by it to the point that it could work through them) would have been able to wear it & remain visible - ie like Sauron. Anyone who was made invisible by it would not have been able to do anything with it - does that make sense? And in bright sunlight the bearer would still cast a shadow.

I don't think Gandalf or Aragorn were potential victims because they knew the nature of the Ring - so why would it bother trying to tempt them? It chose the weakest - the ones most easily dominatable. If Boromir or anyone else had worn the Ring for any period of time they would have drawn the servants of Sauron to themselves - particularly the Ringwraiths, who the bearer could not have dominated.

[VanimaEdhel]

My reasoning is very similar to many people before me, so I won't go into great detail, repeating the reasoning behind my decision.

Like so many others, it came down to Merry and Pippin in my opinion. A major contributing factor is the fact that those were the two that seemed to have the least knowledge regarding the ring. Through either recently acquired knowledge (especially first-hand) or old lore, the others seemed to be more aware of the ring's position in the world - its history and power. I think that Merry, if the Fellowship had stayed together, would have seen the subtle effects of the ring - seen how it was changing all of them. While he is in no regard unintelligent, I don't think that Pippin would have been quite as aware of the power beginning to turn him and his companions. I think Merry would have been perceptive enough to realize the danger, however. Pippin was also the most curious of the group - more than once his curiosity put the group in danger. If they remained together, I think it would have only been a matter of time before the seduction of the ring, mixed with his own curiosity, would have overcome him. As all of his other blunders, Pippin would have had no harm in mind - in fact he may not have even had good deeds in mind - but would have found himself in danger.

Then, however, falls the fact that it seems that Hobbits were particularly strong when it comes to the ring. They, as a race, have far less ambition than men, Dwarves and Elves. And I don't see any particular desire for power coming from Merry or Pippin. But the others knew of the power so well - Gandalf, Aragorn and Legolas best of all. Gimli did not seem to have enough personal drive to be affected and Sam is another Hobbit - he did begin to feel the effects when he was wearing the ring himself, but he was far stronger than any mortal would have been.

[Groin Redbeard]

I think that pretty much all the of the Fellowship are as easily corrupted by the ring as the next person, with the exception of a few. The Hobbits would be the first to succome to the temptation that the Ring offers. Frodo has shown that he can withstand the Ring for quite some time, and Sam has shown us that he can do as equally well. That leaves Merry and Pippin. Out of those two I'd have to say Merry.

[Eönwë]

Welll, if Gandalf took the ring, I'm sure there would be trouble in Valinor. Manwë chose him because he knew that he would not succumb.

And if I remember correctly, didn't Manwë say something like "And he shall be the last". Maybe it disn't mean the last one, as in what Varda said when she answeres "Not the last" (maybe she was making reference to his self control and will in fact, we will never know, or maybe that fact that he thonks a lot?). Anyway, maybe Manwë meant that he would be the last one to remain true his mission (though we don't know about the blue wizards, but Tolkien says somewhere that he thinks they failed, and started cults themselves).

I'm sure if Gandlf (obviously now back to being Olórin) came back to Valinor having succumbed to the ring (maybe even bringing it with him but most probably he would have stayed and ruled the Great Lands) Manwë would have given him a serious talking to (because he chose him), and Eönwë too (Lets not forget he played a similar part to Gandalf, though it was against a mightier foe).
And when I say a serious talking to, I mean it might end up him being chained up like Melkor (or maybe you would calll him Morgoth, even though he no longer had any power by then).

Just thinking, what happened to Curumo (Saruman in middle earth) after Gríma kills him in the scouring of the shire (I won't even start mentioning the bad things that he did)???

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

And if I remember correctly, didn't Manwë say something like "And he shall be the last". Maybe it disn't mean the last one, as in what Varda said when she answeres "Not the last" (maybe she was making reference to his self control and will in fact, we will never know, or maybe that fact that he thonks a lot?). Anyway, maybe Manwë meant that he would be the last one to remain true his mission (though we don't know about the blue wizards, but Tolkien says somewhere that he thinks they failed, and started cults themselves).

Actually, it is not known what Manwë said. He said "something something [undecipherable words, no one knows what Tolkien exactly wrote there] last". Then Varda: "Not the last." And Saruman remembered these words and did not like Gandalf because obviously, he considered himself the First and now it seemed like there was something special on Gandalf.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I'm sure if Gandlf (obviously now back to being Olórin) came back to Valinor having succumbed to the ring (maybe even bringing it with him but most probably he would have stayed and ruled the Great Lands) Manwë would have given him a serious talking to (because he chose him), and Eönwë too (Lets not forget he played a similar part to Gandalf, though it was against a mightier foe).

First and foremost, Gandalf having succumbed to the ring would not have come back to Valinor at all. Even if he wanted, they won't let him. And yes, maybe if he caused trouble in M-E, they would send someone after him - not necessarily Eönwë, as he was more for these "military actions", but some other, well, really, "Gandalf the White", or "Gandalf the Gray as he should be". Maybe even some Radagast could raise opposition, suddenly returning to his real mission ("awakened", so to say, by Valar/Eru)? Who knows.

[Eönwë]

woops, double post

[Galendor]

Good arguments, but I choose Aragorn, for reasons already given. Primarily: 1) he is the only man on the list, 2) son of Isildur, 3) has a will to power.

[littlemanpoet]

Pippin. He was the most irresponsible and lacking in self-control. He would also have been relatively harmless with it, at least at first; probably the greatest harm he would have done with it would be to have tripped his way right into Mordor and handed the thing over to Sauron.