What are your most hated parts about the L.O.T.R movies?

[Boromir88]

Essex, to add to some of Estel's points, not all complaints against the movies are against the changes from the books. There are many changes Jackson makes to the books, and I try hard not to focus on these, because I think as movies they need to be treated like any other movies. Critiqued, but from the film perspective, not because it's different from the books. But, since Jackson did base these off the Tolkien's books it's perfectly reasonable to compare and contrast, just like any other movie based off of a book.

For example, my main argument in the Mouth of Sauron scene was not that it differenciated from the book, but Jackson rejected the very Rules of War that other directors show clear understanding of. Messengers can't be killed, and the Mouth of Sauron could have been easily defeated, and shown in total shame by not having to cut off his head.

When you see a movie, or read a book you must ask yourself (for you to consider it a good story or not) does it show unity and continuity? Does it hold togeter and does it make sense? Is it believable? Not believable as in "there's Dragons and fireballs, this can't happen in real life, it's not believable." But believable, within the movies/books context, if it's a fantasy story you expect to see such things as dragons and basically anything is possible. There are cases when Jackson's movie just doesn't hold together and doesn't make sense within the movie.

For example, Gimli in TTT says "3 days on night pursuit..." when chasing the Uruk-hai. So from Amon Hen, to the plains of Rohan they've been on the hunt for 3 nights. So how does Haldir's Elves make it from Lorien to Helm's Deep in one night? (For what it seems, unless an explanation can be shown to prove otherwise).

Another one, Aragorn acts extremely out of character in the movies. He spares Grima, he stops Theoden from killing Grima, but then he goes and does the immoral thing of chopping off a messengers head. A complete 360, now Aragorn's character doesn't hold together. He spares Saruman's messenger Grima, who nearly caused the destruction and extinction of Rohan, but he kills Sauron's messenger who may or may not have had terms to deliver we don't know, and who had a message to give.

I think anytime you make, write, create (or even type out a reply on a forum) it's open to compliments, but not only compliments you must also accept it's going to be critiqued and criticized. Then I think you take the compliments and the criticisms into account to change and make better the next piece of literature you do. Anytime you make or write something, you're opening for an audience to see which means you're opening it up to criticism, not just compliments.

[alatar]

First, I am surprised that Essex and I haven't been banned from such threads like this one ad vitam...

That being said, I would have to agree with and echo many of the posters thoughts in regards to what PJ didn't get right. My #1 peeve, as noted ad nauseum, is the mishandling of Gandalf's confrontation with the Witch-King. And, letting all of the comparisons between Tolkien's and PJ's Middle Earth aside, I would list the following items that irk me (abbreviated list, to be sure):

• Dueling Nazgul - are these just people with swords dressed in black? Too clumsy to catch hobbits, too easy to scare with fire and swords - why exactly I am afraid?

• Arwen at the Fords - if she wasn't there, the dreaded "She-elf" line couldn't have been uttered. "She-Elf, drop the He-Hobbit from the It-Horse." "Come and claim him, He-Wraiths!" Never realized that wraithdom made one overtly concerned with pronouns and gender identification...no wonder everyone feared the Nazgul.

• Gandalf's lesser role as leader of the Fellowship. "Let's take the Ring to the Fords as all of this snow made me forget about being imprisoned by Saruman."

• The "Stairs of Khazad-dûm" - could we have used our FOTR running time better? More Lothlorien please.

• Most of TTT - Cliff-diving Aragorn, running dwarf running gags, eloping Eomer, Gandalf a rider for the Pony Express: white wizard division ("When your call to war absolutely, positively has to get there before the movie ends"), dreams of Arwen, etc.

• Of special TTT note: Just how many of elves does it take to kill a few Uruks? See
  here and here for more frothed-mouth rantings.

• More TTT: Ents. It takes them (seemingly) hours to say hello yet can change their minds and go to war with Saruman immediately after seeing some felled trees. Pretty inconsistent, and not very good shepherds either.

• Saruman's fireball was just great. Would have been handy against Ents if they ever made up their minds to attack.

• Legolas' concern for body count. This is my only explanation for 'capping' Grima. Hmmm...maybe that explains Aragorn's execution of MoS. "One! I'm already in the lead!"

• Denethor the slob. If only the orcs had brought a spikey wheel with them as they entered the Minas Tirith, then the Steward could have died a fitting death.

• Theoden's bonfire. It seemed a bit confusing that Theoden needed to see a fire on a hill to go to war. Couldn't Aragorn saved some movie minutes by having the Dynamic Duo go off and light the one that he sees? This would have saved us from watching Indiana "Pippin" Jones being watched by Gandalf the Fireless ("Sure wish they would have taught us that fireball spell back in Istari school.")

• The Pirates of PJ-anze. This menacing bunch gave us more Dwarf and Elf show. Cheers on that. And "I produce, therefore I can act."

• Gothmog.

• What's a woman gotta do to get some recognition? "So you're Eowyn, Stewardess of Ithilien. It says here that you slew countless orcs during the Siege, took down some mumakil, single-handedly beheaded the Fell Beast and destroyed the biggest corporal non-spotlight baddy of the trilogy known as the Witch-King...okay, so what did you do after that?" She killed the WK, yet we had to have more, and so she flees from Gothmog. Is the word enough in PJ's vocabulary?

• Osgiliath amphibious invasion. I wasn't sure if PJ were going for a reenactment of the landing at Normandy (6-June-1944) or the crossing of the Delaware (25-Dec-1776).

• The Green Ghost Tide.

My fingers are running out of strength...

• The Spotlight of Sauron.

• CSI: Cirith Ungol. Watch tonight as everyone's favorite sidekick Sam finally figures out 'who done it' after examining lembas crumbs.

I'll quit now.

Anyway, before I get flamed, note that I appreciate PJ's work as it's better than anything I or anyone else has done. Without his movies I would still be wishing that someone somewhere would get the rights and make the movies - I'm too lazy. Great scenery, props, actors, effects, soundtrack, etc.

[Dimcollowen]

Hi there!

Alright, overall Jacksons movies were awesome!! But the scenes I didn't like were the ones w/ Aragorn and Arwen....mayb thats because i am jealous.... yeah that must be it!

[Essex]

the 'messanger' that was the mouth of Sauron was not there to Parley as he did in the books.

Therefore he was not under any protection via the 'rules of war'

The MoS was goading and and putting doubt into the Forces of the West's hearts. He was not offering any terms of surrender to the troops.

Therefore aragorn did the quick thing (and yes not very moral but it was war) and stopped the MoS in his tracks by killing him. Henry Vth supposedly did pretty much the same thing when he got his troops to kill his prisoners as he could not afford to keep them imprisoned and fight the battle of Agincourt at the same time. Not nice, but then, hey, it's War. nasty things happen unfortunately. People die.....

PS It is Bashing. Just look at the title of this thread 'What are your most hated parts about the LOTR movies?' And that's what I've done above in my first post above. I bashed the one part of the movies I thought was really dire.

[The Only Real Estel]

Posted by Essex:

It is Bashing. Just look at the title of this thread 'What are your most hated parts about the LOTR movies?'

I wouldn't have used 'hated' in the title, but that's up to the thread starter. Still, that doesn't mean that we are all relating scenes that we 'hated', just because he used that word. I said myself that 'hate' would be too strong of a word.

A good example of bashing would be listing off things you didn't like about the movies & then continuing on to say that PJ must have a brain the size of a pea & shouldn't be allowed to ever make another movie. As far as I know, that's not what we are doing.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by The Only Real Estel

A good example of bashing would be listing off things you didn't like about the movies & then continuing on to say that PJ must have a brain the size of a pea & shouldn't be allowed to ever make another movie.

Technically, that would be Jackson-bashing. Essex is correct that listing things that you hate or dislike about the films is film-bashing. Perfectly permissible but, hey, it's so last year.

[The Only Real Estel]

Good point, SpM, especially about it getting a bit old.

But I still think that there is a happy medium-you can discuss your dislikes without going overboard [bashing].

[alatar]

Originally Posted by The Only Real Estel

A good example of bashing would be listing off things you didn't like about the movies & then continuing on to say that PJ must have a brain the size of a pea & shouldn't be allowed to ever make another movie. As far as I know, that's not what we are doing.

Was that me? I love utilizing the 'list' feature as it gives a different look to the post.

Anyway, I never would comment on PJ's brain size or ability. Hey look, he's a film producer, got the rights and the backing to make three good films, was able to sell the completely contrary idea of 'three at once' to an industry that is terrified to take risks, was more than vindicated/honored both by sales and awards...and I...well...post about him. Hope never to be so arrogant as to slam the guy personally.

Well, at least not anymore - can't remember what I may have previously posted .

As SpM rightly states, this is becoming ancient history, but I still can't help posting on this theme - though more for fun than for therapy.

[The Only Real Estel]

I wasn't referring to you alatar. I remember reading a post by some trollish newb that said stuff along those lines but that must've been a year ago at least.

So you're safe.