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Old 09-08-2005, 05:10 AM   #1
Lalwendë
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Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Going against what we might expect of fiction in terms of entertainment, Tolkien presents the reader with the proceedings of in-depth meetings or Councils in LotR; they convey a lot of useful information, and they are intended to show how decisions are reached, but they might be expected to make for dull reading. Meetings in general are neither action filled nor are they magical, but Tolkien writes of them in a compelling style. In both this chapter and in The Council of Elrond he manages to present fascinating and complex discussions. Not only that, but he also uses the proceedings to explain to the reader how seemingly reckless plans are made. Arguments for and against different actions are broken down and dispensed of with care, and without boring the reader. I think this reflects his own skills in presenting arguments. As an example, On Fairy Stories demonstrates how he could take a topic and break it down into relevant areas, discussing each and examining, then dismissing, arguments until he came to a conclusion.

Gandalf takes an interesting role in this council. Is he the chairperson? Or the invited expert? At this stage it might be expected that Aragorn, or perhaps Imrahil acting as Steward, would lead discussion but it is Gandalf who does so. Perhaps this is as he is relatively impartial compared to the two Men who would make obvious candidates to take the lead. It is also a credit to them that they allow Gandalf to do this and do not immediately seek the ‘power’ of leading the talk.

In this chapter Gandalf demonstrates his sheer mastery of ‘counsel’. Without any preamble he gets straight to the point and shows those assembled exactly the situation that they face. He even goes as far as to begin by addressing the situation as negatively as possible, yet he does this in order to have the leaders gathered there consider the options realistically:

Quote:
I do not bid you despair, as he did, but to ponder the truth in these words.
Gandalf is addressing a group of leaders who are fresh from a great victory, and it would be all too easy at this point for them to become complacent. This is why he immediately states the gravity of the situation. The following interchange between Imrahil and Gandalf illustrates why Gandalf has to approach the matter in this way. He is about to introduce a strategy that might seem like madness and so he must first have the leaders address the reason why previous strategies under Denethor have failed:

Quote:
You have only a choice of evils; and prudence would counsel you to strengthen such strong places as you have, and there await the onset; for so shall the time before your end be made a little longer.'

'Then you would have us retreat to Minas Tirith, or Dol Amroth, or to Dunharrow, and there sit like children on sand-castles when the tide is flowing?' said Imrahil.

'That would be no new counsel,' said Gandalf. 'Have you not done this and little more in all the days of Denethor? But no! I said this would be prudent. I do not counsel prudence. I said victory could not be achieved by arms.
Gandalf then reveals why he proposes a new strategy, and talks openly of The Ring at last:

Quote:
For into the midst of all these policies comes the Ring of Power, the foundation of Barad-dur, and the hope of Sauron.
After pressing on the group assembled exactly why preventing Sauron from getting the Ring should be the next and ultimate objective, he also underlines that this is not a task which will destroy evil for ever. But likewise, this kind of seemingly desperate task has had to be carried out before and will probably have to be faced again in many years to come; they are not the only leaders in all the years of the world in what they now face.

Only after preparing the ground for his strategy does he invite the others to speak and contribute; he has gained their interest and now he describes what he proposes, his ‘counsel’. But this is no ordinary ‘counsel’. Gandalf has prepared the ground to present his argument carefully and skilfully. He has shown the group the worst that can happen, he has shown them the despair inherent in their situation, has dismissed the alternatives and then he gives them what he proposes, which is a suicide mission. In our position having read the book, we know that events will not turn out that way, but viewed at this point, what Gandalf suggests is madness.

Gandalf builds his words up into a crescendo at this point:

Quote:
We must push Sauron to his last throw. We must call out his hidden strength, so that he shall empty his land. We must march out to meet him at once. We must make ourselves the bait, though his jaws should close on us. He will take that bait, in hope and in greed, for he will think that in such rashness he sees the pride of the new Ringlord: and he will say: "So! he pushes out his neck too soon and too far. Let him come on, and behold I will have him in a trap from which he cannot escape. There I will crush him, and what he has taken in his insolence shall be mine again for ever."

'We must walk open-eyed into that trap, with courage, but small hope for ourselves. For, my lords, it may well prove that we ourselves shall perish utterly in a black battle far from the living lands; so that even if Barad-dur be thrown down, we shall not live to see a new age. But this, I deem, is our duty. And better so than to perish nonetheless--as we surely shall, If we sit here--and know as we die that no new age shall be.'
Four sentences begin with ‘we must’, then he repeatedly uses the words ‘he will’ and even uses the words he can imagine (foresee?) Sauron using. This is where Gandalf shifts into another gear using words descriptive of action, telling the assembled group what is going to happen, giving objectives. His words are clear, almost blunt. He is able to do this at this point as he has gained the attention of the others. He finishes off by talking of duty, the possibility, almost certainty, of death, but stirring the listeners into wanting to be courageous. After he has spoken this time, there is silence.

Aragorn is first to speak having considered the words and he has been stirred to approval. He answers for himself alone. He says that Gandalf’s proposal ought to be approved, but that everyone must make up their own mind. Gandalf has appealed directly to each listener’s personal sense of duty; they all quickly follow up Aragorn in mandating the proposal.

Gandalf gets the approval of all the leaders concerned before allowing room for debate, the time to get into the details which could have bogged the meeting down. He is the kind of chairperson every such council or meeting should have, as he unequivocally states his position and seeks approval before anyone can get into details and arguments. Time is short, and he knows this. And maybe this shows why strong-willed leaders such as Denethor did not like Gandalf’s ‘counsel’; he is skilled at getting the point across and an expert in persuading an audience to his view. Yet he does not give the appearance of ‘forcing’ anyone into approval. To disagree with counsel like that might make any leader seem churlish, even if they were strong minded enough to argue against Gandalf.
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Old 03-09-2019, 08:43 PM   #2
Galadriel55
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Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Legolas and Gimli have a curious thing going on where anytime they have a polite disagreement and one of them runs out of arguments they still want to put in the last word and answer with a vague statement like "to that Elves don't know the answer" or "Dwarves do not look that far ahead" (paraphrased from memory). It seems to work in their weird relationship dynamic that whoever loses the debate gets to have the satisfaction of the last word, and everyone is happy.

The flashback to the remainder of Aragorn's story is not just demanded by the curiosity of him showing up unexpectedly on enemy ships, but is also hinted at by his words to Merry at the Houses of Healing about clearing his path with fire and sword and not having eaten or slept. If we weren't impressed by him in The Paths of the Dead, we have to be now. We get a sense of the terror of the Dead and the strength required to keep them in obedience through more eyes now: not just Gimli but all the people that they meet, friend and foe alike. I believe the most terrified people during the attack of the dead were the chained rowing slaves, experiencing the same fear as the others around them but unable to act on the impulse to run or hide. It's the same chains that saved them though, preventing them from jumping overboard in the same madness as their masters. Though we know practically nothing of Angbor, the fact that he stayed to meet Aragorn automatically makes him a likable character - a brave and responsible leader.
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:14 PM   #3
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Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
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Tolkien's narrative choice to make the arrival of the black fleet at the Battle of the Pelennor a eucatastrophe is the cause of this chapter. For that reason, half of it really isn't in the movies, not in this position anyway. It's the sort of chapter that would make a killer flashback episode in a television series, especially if you consider that what's going on "at present" (i.e. planning the assault on the Black Gate) is directly tied to what happened "in the past" (Aragorn's march through the Paths and his victories in the South.

"The Last Debate" is very much a high-level view of the plot, looking at the War from Sauron's level more than any other. Arguably, to Sauron, Aragorn's victory at Pelargir was more significant than the Pelennor. This was a supernatural victory and one made by the candidate he most suspects to have the Ring. Meanwhile, the Pelennor--from Sauron's perspective--was more of a mixed bag. Losing his cloud cover AND the Witch-king in one battle is ominous, but it was an acceptable--and temporary--setback once the Rohirrim overthrew Saruman and Aragorn succeeded at Pelargir. And, from Sauron's point of view, it was luck not skill on the part of the West, since Gandalf appears to have been quite ineffective during it. If Gandalf quails to face the Witch-king and Aragorn has the Ring, this is good news for Sauron.
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