why do elves need to go to the undying lands? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Legolas · 09-16-2005, 12:00 PM

Being immortal, elves attempt to be preservers - they try to halt change as much as possible. Change can even give men turmoil in our short lives, so it wears and tears even more on elves as they live thousands of years. In Aman, they may rejoin their kin and live in a place that changes very little.

Elrond's concern for his daughter is different, as noted by the others before me. I wrote a full explanation of Elrond and his family's mortal/immortal situation here. Simply put, they are half-elven (on each side of their family tree is the union of a man and elf). His family did many great things, and as their ancestors, he and his parents, brother, and children have the choice - mortal or immortal. He chose immortality, and his children have to make their decision before he leaves (or very shortly after).

SunniGadi · 10-19-2005, 05:48 PM

Elves are immortal in the since that they can froever age, but they can still die.

And I never remember Elrond talking about Arwen dying, just about Aragorn and their potential children dying, her having to stand and watch them pass.

wilwarin538 · 10-19-2005, 06:00 PM

Quote:

And I never remember Elrond talking about Arwen dying, just about Aragorn and their potential children dying, her having to stand and watch them pass.

Well even though Arwen did choose a mortal life, it would still take a while longer for her to die. Almost like the imortality takes awhile to leave her. I think Elrond was just saying that even though Arwen would be mortal she would still out live Aragorn by quite a bit, possibly even her own children(but I doubt that).

radagastly · 10-19-2005, 07:39 PM

It should probably be mentioned at this point that those half-elven who chose mortality and their descendents (including Aragorn) had the freedom to choose the time of their death. They must die, but they could take the time to come to terms with it first, to finish their task before leaving behind the bonds of Arda. This is why I think that if Arwen had recanted her mortal choice when Aragorn died, she still could have sailed into the west and rejoined her father there, instead of journeying to Lorien and lying down on Parth Galen. That, to me, is part of what makes her passing so moving.

ElentariGreenleaf · 10-20-2005, 04:10 AM

I've always felt kinda sorry for elves. I mean, surely immortal life would get kinda dull. And half-elves having to pick between immortal and mortal lives. Cruel Eru! Cruel!

Lalwendë · 10-20-2005, 06:46 AM

There is also a certain expectation that Elves will go to the Undying Lands. Those who refused to go are somewhat diminished. For Elves who have already died, who have only their Fea, to refuse to go to the Undying Lands and the Halls of Mandos is viewed as wrong. It is said that such 'houseless' Elves are incredibly vulnerable to corruption from dark forces and can be dangerous, sometimes inhabiting trees and rocks. For more, have a look at HoME X.

One question which fascinates me is how and why did Elros and Elrond come to the decisions that they made over their fate?

Tuor of Gondolin · 10-20-2005, 12:41 PM

Posted by Radagastly
"This is why I think that if Arwen had recanted her mortal choice when Aragorn died, she still could have sailed into the west and rejoined her father there, instead of journeying to Lorien and lying down on Parth Galen. That, to me, is part of what makes her passing so moving."
==========

Check the appendix to LOTR. It's actually curious. Radagastly's view is that of
Aragorn's, while Arwen disagrees. As, I believe, JRRT does in Letters. But it
is a curious exchange between Aragorn and Arwen.

09-16-2005, 12:00 PM	#1
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Being immortal, elves attempt to be preservers - they try to halt change as much as possible. Change can even give men turmoil in our short lives, so it wears and tears even more on elves as they live thousands of years. In Aman, they may rejoin their kin and live in a place that changes very little. Elrond's concern for his daughter is different, as noted by the others before me. I wrote a full explanation of Elrond and his family's mortal/immortal situation here. Simply put, they are half-elven (on each side of their family tree is the union of a man and elf). His family did many great things, and as their ancestors, he and his parents, brother, and children have the choice - mortal or immortal. He chose immortality, and his children have to make their decision before he leaves (or very shortly after). __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

10-19-2005, 05:48 PM	#2
SunniGadi Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Massachusetts. Yay. Posts: 26	Elves are immortal in the since that they can froever age, but they can still die. And I never remember Elrond talking about Arwen dying, just about Aragorn and their potential children dying, her having to stand and watch them pass. __________________ ~~~~~~~~~ Stuff should go here. It might eventually.

10-19-2005, 07:39 PM	#4
radagastly Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Washington, D. C., USA Posts: 299	It should probably be mentioned at this point that those half-elven who chose mortality and their descendents (including Aragorn) had the freedom to choose the time of their death. They must die, but they could take the time to come to terms with it first, to finish their task before leaving behind the bonds of Arda. This is why I think that if Arwen had recanted her mortal choice when Aragorn died, she still could have sailed into the west and rejoined her father there, instead of journeying to Lorien and lying down on Parth Galen. That, to me, is part of what makes her passing so moving. __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door.

10-20-2005, 04:10 AM	#5
ElentariGreenleaf Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Look, I'm over there! Posts: 496	I've always felt kinda sorry for elves. I mean, surely immortal life would get kinda dull. And half-elves having to pick between immortal and mortal lives. Cruel Eru! Cruel! __________________ There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot. Website\|Art

10-20-2005, 06:46 AM	#6
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	There is also a certain expectation that Elves will go to the Undying Lands. Those who refused to go are somewhat diminished. For Elves who have already died, who have only their Fea, to refuse to go to the Undying Lands and the Halls of Mandos is viewed as wrong. It is said that such 'houseless' Elves are incredibly vulnerable to corruption from dark forces and can be dangerous, sometimes inhabiting trees and rocks. For more, have a look at HoME X. One question which fascinates me is how and why did Elros and Elrond come to the decisions that they made over their fate? __________________ Gordon's alive!

10-20-2005, 12:41 PM	#7
Tuor of Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pennsylvania, WtR, passed Sarn Gebir: Above the rapids (1239 miles) BtR, passed Black Rider Stopping Place (31 miles) Posts: 1,548	Posted by Radagastly "This is why I think that if Arwen had recanted her mortal choice when Aragorn died, she still could have sailed into the west and rejoined her father there, instead of journeying to Lorien and lying down on Parth Galen. That, to me, is part of what makes her passing so moving." ========== Check the appendix to LOTR. It's actually curious. Radagastly's view is that of Aragorn's, while Arwen disagrees. As, I believe, JRRT does in Letters. But it is a curious exchange between Aragorn and Arwen. __________________ Aure Entuluva!

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