LOTR Survivor

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Vote Celeborn, folks. Saruman can wait. After all...his staff is broken. It's not like he can do any real damage.

Yes, but he is still capable of causing mischief. Hacking down trees, stealing Merry's pipe, putting dirt into the drinking water and the like. Would you like to sip your morning coffee, only to find that it had literally become a cup of mud?

Originally Posted by mormegil

You see this is exactly what I was talking about. To this alliance, you are not special unless your ears are pointy. They do intend to eradicate all non-elves from the Island. We need to strike at their heart and demonstrate to this silver-hair alliance that others here can weild power too. They have come to think of themselves as invinsible. Let's put an end to it and vote Celeborn.

This may or may not be true. But there's only one way to really find out: a one-on-one showdown with a palatable non-Elf in the final voting round. Saruman just won't cut it for such a challenge. Now Celeborn against Eowyn might be interesting...

[Formendacil]

Shameless! Shameless how these Elves have made you people their unwitting tools!

I warn you, these Elves are using you for their own purposes! They can be very arrogant, the Elves. And they have never been above using Men as tools in those purposes... And precious little help they give back. "Go not to the Elves for advice, for they will say both yes and no". Or how about that Legolas? "Of the Fellowship, Legolas probably accomplished the least" (good thing we lynched... er... kicked off... Legolas!)

Elves have always been Men's "friends" when they needed help. Look at the First Age. Look at Sauron's invasion of Eriador. Look at the Last Alliance. Furthermore, look at what it cost Men to be Elvenkind's friends in those situations!

And inbetween, when Elves didn't need Men's help?

They stayed on their own. "To sheep, other sheep no doubt look alike. Or to the shepherd. But mortals have not been our study." They found themselves little havens and had parties there while Mankind laboured in the world outside.

Seriously, even the DWARVES have been better allies.

I'll grant that Saruman looks like he's gonna go this time, but I seriously emplore all Men (that includes you ladies, by the way) of independent minds and noble spirits to consider who truly is USING you for their own selfish ends.

~Michael A. Joosten - a MAN~

[Mithalwen]

Nonsense...what thanks did they get... Isildur just taking the ring... surprised the elves bothered with them at all - after all, they could escape. But they didn't. Any Celeborn stayed behind to mind those lethal twins, Elladan and Elrohir - someone had to......

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Nonsense...what thanks did they get... Isildur just taking the ring... surprised the elves bothered with them at all - after all, they could escape. But they didn't. Any Celeborn stayed behind to mind those lethal twins, Elladan and Elrohir - someone had to......

Are you insinuating that Elladan and Elrohir, because they- alone among the Elves-truly loved and chose to stay with their Mannish kindred out of love, perhaps because in the end they chose to become Men, they were somehow more dangerous, somehow more "lethal" than those ordinary, lofty, selfish Elves?

And, as far as Isildur goes, I'm certain that Elrond and Cirdan combined could have taken him, had they REALLY wanted to. 2 to 1 odds... But no, the Elves didn't want to mess up their pretty hair.

[the guy who be short]

++Saruman the Many-Coloured

So not fashonable.

I would like to point out that Sam abandoned Rosie and his little kiddies to go to Valinor too. (And no, their not being ringbearers is not a valid excuse.)

[arcticstorm]

I hope this is allowed
--Ugluk ++Saruman

save Celeborn

[Anguirel]

Formendacil's tongue has also been ensorcelled. Having ranted about the faithlessness of the Elves as allies of Men, he has just castigated two Elven lords for not murdering the King of Arnor and Gondor...

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Formendacil's tongue has also been ensorcelled. Having ranted about the faithlessness of the Elves as allies of Men, he has just castigated two Elven lords for not murdering the King of Arnor and Gondor...

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

No I am pointing out that they loved them so much that the chieftains of the Dunedain seemed to come to sticky ends in their company..... draw your own conclusions and their choice was not known...... I believe in the letters it says it was deferred...

And Elrond and Cirdan clearly believe in free will.. goodness knows what you would have said if they had forced him

For the benefit of all Mankind, it would have been far better to have the Ring destroyed ASAP. Unlike Elves, Men have no Valinor to go floating off to in safety, should things get hot.

And as regards Free Will... Don't you advocate locking up deranged Mass Murderers in order to protect the rest of the people?

Don't you???

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Are you insinuating that Elladan and Elrohir, because they- alone among the Elves-truly loved and chose to stay with their Mannish kindred out of love, perhaps because in the end they chose to become Men, they were somehow more dangerous, somehow more "lethal" than those ordinary, lofty, selfish Elves?

And, as far as Isildur goes, I'm certain that Elrond and Cirdan combined could have taken him, had they REALLY wanted to. 2 to 1 odds... But no, the Elves didn't want to mess up their pretty hair.

No I am pointing out that they loved them so much that the chieftains of the Dunedain seemed to come to sticky ends in their company..... draw your own conclusions and their choice was not known...... I believe in the letters it says it was deferred...

And Elrond and Cirdan clearly believe in free will.. goodness knows what you would have said if they had forced him

[Folwren]

Originally posted by TGWBS:
I would like to point out that Sam abandoned Rosie and his little kiddies to go to Valinor too. (And no, their not being ringbearers is not a valid excuse.)

You are so going down for that, short guy. Villainous rogue. We're not talking about Sam here. You got him booted a long time ago. I'm terribly glad that I got Bilbo gone before too long.

And he did not abandon Rosie. If he were as faithless as all that - as faithless as Celeborn - he might have left her and gone directly with Frodo. Instead he stayed in the Shire, with his wife, and had kids. He brought them up, he saw them married. He remained faithful unto death. Then when she went, he knew his time had come. His children were no longer dependent on him. They weren't 'little kiddies' any more.

But don't worry. We still have time. Time enough to counter all these elf feinds who want Celeborn here still..........

-- Folwren

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Folwren

And he did not abandon Rosie. If he were as faithless as all that - as faithless as Celeborn - he might have left her and gone directly with Frodo. Instead he stayed in the Shire, with his wife, and had kids.

-- Folwren

Waht - he wanted to go with Frodo - he didn't give Rosie and Elanor a moment's thought at the Havens - Frodo had to tell him to stay!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whereas it says in Home that it was perfectly normal for ELves to be apart at time once their children were grown. Someone had to wind up the realm.... duty not choice I deem.