LOTR Survivor

[Anguirel]

Formendacil's tongue has also been ensorcelled. Having ranted about the faithlessness of the Elves as allies of Men, he has just castigated two Elven lords for not murdering the King of Arnor and Gondor...

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Formendacil's tongue has also been ensorcelled. Having ranted about the faithlessness of the Elves as allies of Men, he has just castigated two Elven lords for not murdering the King of Arnor and Gondor...

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

No I am pointing out that they loved them so much that the chieftains of the Dunedain seemed to come to sticky ends in their company..... draw your own conclusions and their choice was not known...... I believe in the letters it says it was deferred...

And Elrond and Cirdan clearly believe in free will.. goodness knows what you would have said if they had forced him

For the benefit of all Mankind, it would have been far better to have the Ring destroyed ASAP. Unlike Elves, Men have no Valinor to go floating off to in safety, should things get hot.

And as regards Free Will... Don't you advocate locking up deranged Mass Murderers in order to protect the rest of the people?

Don't you???

[Anguirel]

Fine. So, let's take what you say Elrond and Cirdan should have done.

Isildur is rugby-tackled and slain. Elrond picks up the ring-and fails. Cirdan reluctantly does him in-and also fails, because their task is impossible. Would you not then be declaiming against Elvish arrogance? Come on, you can't seriously claim to speak for human liberties and at the same time blame the Elves for not violently taking the matter into their own hands and starting a war with Men...

At least the War of the Ring broadly united Elves and Men. Internecine conflict would have been far more crippling. I'm glad the Elves had more sense than you advocate.

And your mass-murderer comment is disingenuous, because firstly there was no way Isildur could have resisted, so he was not to blame; (he even repented and began to journey to Rivendell for advice later) and secondly the punishment you are proposing is not imprisonment but the death penalty, a far more controversial issue, which I am dead against for one.

So, yup, this chap is criticising the Elves for not being more efficient at killing innocent men, while arguing Men's cause. Peculiar.

EDIT: Okay. I've seen Kath's post. The opposition are bribing and coercing voters! Boro, this is clear abuse of the system! Exert your wise justice!