Narn I Chîn Húrin 1: Túrins Fostering

[Findegil]

NA-EX-34.5: I think that "... and ... and ..." isn't that good. What about:

[NA-EX-34.5[/b]But still Túrin would not return to Doriath; and Beleg yielding to his love against his wisdom remained with him, and did not depart /, but returned with the men to Bar-en-Danwedh/, and in that time he laboured much for the good of Túrin's company. ...

Posted by Aiwendil:

Also, I thought that our general policy was to use single quotes for speech instead of double.

That's good to know. I think it was discussed before my time and I did never asked but switched forward and backward some times.

I have become a bit troubled by the curse of Mim upon Androg. If Androg survives the battle, then the curse cannot be fulfilled. But it seems that at the time the curse was written about, it was most certainly intended to be fulfilled. I think there is a strong case for taking the statement that Androg survived as contradicting the curse of Mim. We must decide, then, from among the following:

1. Androg's survival does not contradict the curse.

2. The curse is to be excised from the narrative.

3. Androg's survival must be taken as a projected change that cannot be implemented.

Why should the cruse not be fullfilled if Androg survives the battle upon Amon Rudh? On the contary it was also never told how he died there. I think he could survie that battle and later die a violent death acording to the curse.

NA-EX-28.5: Your addition is good, even if I do not think it necessary to make it perfectly clear what was meaned. But you seem to have still some doubts about the inclusion?

NA-TI-07.5: Posted by Aiwendil:

In other words, as I see it, the statement that they went south must be treated as an indivisble unit; I don't think we'd be justified in taking only part of that version.

I can see your point. But still it sound odd to me first to tell all about the way of Turin and his band and then speak of Beleg starting on thier track in the same area of which we had just told that Túrin had returned to. So what about:

Then all those that were of the People of Hador gathered to him, and took him as their captain; and the others with less good will agreed. And at once he led them away out of that country.{ 10}NA-TI-07.2 <NA; note 11 {they}They remained in the Vale of Sirion, and {indeed that they were not far from their previous haunts at the time of the Orc-raid on the homes of the Woodmen. In one tentative version they} went away southwards and came to the country {"}above the Aelinuial and the Fens of Sirion{"}>.
Many messengers had been sent out by Thingol to seek Túrin within Doriath and in the lands near its borders; ...
...
... "Alas!" he cried. "To well did I teach this child of Men craft in wood and field! An Elvish band almost one might think this to be." But they for their part became aware that they were trailed by some tireless pursuer, whom they could not see, and yet could not shake off; and they grew uneasy.{ 11}
NA-TI-07.5 <NA; note 11 {but}And with the men becoming discontented in that {"}harbourless land{"}/ above the Aelinuial and the Fens of Sirion/, Túrin was persuaded to lead them back to the woodlands south of {Teiglin}[Taeglin] where he first encountered them.>
Not long afterwards, as Beleg had feared, the Orcs came across the Brithiach, ...

If that does not go in your oppinion, I think that this would be as fare as I would go:

Then all those that were of the People of Hador gathered to him, and took him as their captain; and the others with less good will agreed. And at once he led them away out of that country.{ 10}
Many messengers had been sent out by Thingol to seek Túrin within Doriath and in the lands near its borders; ...
...
... "Alas!" he cried. "To well did I teach this child of Men craft in wood and field! An Elvish band almost one might think this to be." But they for their part became aware that they were trailed by some tireless pursuer, whom they could not see, and yet could not shake off; and they grew uneasy.{ 11}
NA-TI-07.5 <NA; note 11{they}They had remained in the Vale of Sirion, and {indeed that they were not far from their previous haunts at the time of the Orc-raid on the homes of the Woodmen. In one tentative version they went away}had gone southwards and {came}come to the country {"}above the Aelinuial and the Fens of Sirion{"} but the men becoming discontented in that {"}harbourless land{"}, Túrin was persuaded to lead them back to the woodlands south of {Teiglin}[Taeglin] where he first encountered them.>
Not long afterwards, as Beleg had feared, the Orcs came across the Brithiach, ...

All the issues I did not comment on, I agree with Aiwendils versions/comments.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Aiwendil]

NA-EX-34.5: Your suggestions looks good.

Findegil wrote:

Why should the cruse not be fullfilled if Androg survives the battle upon Amon Rudh? On the contary it was also never told how he died there. I think he could survie that battle and later die a violent death acording to the curse.

That's a good point. Still, at the time the text was written, the curse was clearly supposed to result in Androg's death during the battle at Amon Rudh. I think that if we have Androg survive (which I suppose we must do), we should simply delete the reference to the curse at this point:

There he is said to have fought more valiantly than any, NA-SL-02 but he fell at last {mortally wounded by an arrow; and thus the curse of Mîm was fulfilled.} [but alone of all]> <Aelfwine & Dirhaval A the outlaw-band of Túrin{, and alone} he survived the battle on the summit of Amon Rudh.>

NA-EX-28.5: I suppose I'm ultimately for the inclusion of this bit.

NA-TI-07.5: Your first suggestion looks good to me.

If this section is settled, I'll move on to the next section as soon as I get a chance - possibly tonight but more likely tomorrow or Friday.

[Findegil]

the Curse on Androg: What a bad argument on my side! That what a bad memory creats! Your suggestions is good, but I think wounded should be used to clear it up ultimatly:

NA-EX-41 <Ap Narn It was only then that {he} [Andróg] revealed to Túrin the existence of the inner stair; and he was one of those who came by that way to the summit. There he is said to have fought more valiantly than any, NA-SL-02 but he fell at last{ mortally} wounded {by an arrow; and thus the curse of Mîm was fulfilled.}[but alone of all]> <Aelfwine & Dírhaval A the outlaw-band of Túrin{, and alone}he survived the battle on the summit of Amon Rûdh.>

Without the point above we are then done with this section.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Findegil]

Meadhros and Aiwendil, please let me know when it is okay for you that I start posting diffrences between The Children of Húrin and our version of the Narn. What I post might be bad spoilers to your reading of The Children of Húrin.

Also this is a warning to all: If you did not jet finish The Children of Húrin and are not interested knowing beforehand what is diffrent in that book DO NOT READ further in this thread.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Maédhros]

Meadhros and Aiwendil, please let me knowwhen it is okay for that I start posting diffrences between The CHildren of Húrin and our version of the Narn. What I post might be bad spoilers to your reading of The CHildren of Húrin.

Hmmmmm. I don't know. I will get my Children of Húrin book in July, but I have no problem with you posting the changes in it. I mean, it's not as if I haven't read the story before.

[Aiwendil]

Yes, post away by all means.

[Findegil]

First a general lock on the texts. I give here a part of the Appendix of CoH:

From Túrin in Doriath the new text is a good deal changed in relation to that in Unfinished Tales. There is here a range of writing, much of it very rough, concerned with the same narrative elements a different stages of development, and in such a case it is obviously possible to take different views on how the original material should be treated. I have come to think that when I composed the text in Unfinished Tales I allowed myself more editorial freedom than was necessary. In this book I have reconsidered the original manuscripts and reconstituted the text, in many (usually very minor) places restoring the original words, introducing sentences or brief passages that should not have been omitted, correcting a few errors, and making different choices among the original readings.
...
The major lacuna in the narrative as given in Unfinished Tales (p. 104) is filled in the new text on pages 141 to 181, from the end of the section Of Mîm the Dwarf and through The Land of Bow and Helm, The Death of Beleg, Túrin in Nargothrond, and The Fall of Nargothrond.
There is a complex relationship in this part of the 'Túrin saga' between the original manuscripts, the story as it is told in The Silmarillion, the disconnected passages collected in the appendix to the Narn in Unfinished Tales, and the new text in this book. I have supposed that it was my father's general intention, in the fullness of time, when he had archived to his satisfaction the 'great tale' of Túrin, to derive from it a much briefer form of the story in what one may call 'the Silmarillion mode'. But of course this did not happen; and so I undertook, now more than thirty years ago, the strange task of trying to simulate what he did not do: the writing of a 'Silmarillion' version of the latest form of the story, but deriving this from the heterogeneous materials of the 'long version', the Narn. That is Chapter 21 in the published Silmarillion.
Thus the text in this book that fills the long gap in the story in Unfinished Tales is derived from the same original materials as is the corresponding passage in The Silmarillion (pp. 204-15), but they are used for different purpose in each case, and in the new text with a better understanding of the labyrinth of drafts and notes and their sequence. Much in the original manuscripts that was omitted or compressed in The Silmarillion remains available; but where there was nothing to be added the Silmarillion version (as in the tale of the death of Beleg, derived from the Annals of Beleriand that version is simply repeated.
In the result, while I have had to introduce bridging passages here and there in the piecing together of different drafts, there is no element of extraneous 'invention' of any kind, however slight, in the longer text here presented. The text is nonetheless artificial, as it could not be otherwise: the more especially since this great body of manuscripts represents a continual evolution in the actual story. ...

Thus we learn how to handle the different texts: lowest priority is given to the version in the Sil77, then follows the body of the text of the Narn and then the text of CoH, but highest priority is given to the fragments in the appendix to the Narn and GA since there was no external need for any editing of style or for consistency.

In general therefore I followed the in my comparison the text and structure of CoH instead of the [b]Narn[B] or the Sil77. Exceptions of this will be mentioned.

On exception is the use of 'thou' instead of 'you' etc.. In CoH 'you' is used throughout, but in Unfinished Tales it is attested that this is not the case in the original manuscripts. Therefore where ever we have the information that once there was a 'thou' used in a place I kept that.

I have marked all changes that I introduce but I did not give a editing mark with a number to each change because of the great amount of changes. I will also not give here each and every small change of wording, since that would mean giving the text in full which is not appropriate (here).

While reading and preparing the text I found a few possible addition from earlier sources that we missed as yet. They will also be given in the following posts.

Respectfully
Findegil