The Silmarillion Survivor

[Anguirel]

Ungoliant: 1
Manwe: 1
Ingwe: 3
Curufin: 1

Curufin? You mean Feanor's kindly, charming fifth son? The one with the lovely, round, soft, innocent eyes? The sensitive smith and artist? The loving husband whose wife is expecting a child?

Come off it. A ridiculous accusation!

And a dangerous one too. Quite apart from Feanor himself-and Curufin is Feanor's favourite!-he has rather a lot of tall, imposing, muscled big brothers.

Maedhros-"If that sissy Maia herald Eonwe so much as touches my wee brother..."

Maglor-"Voting for Curufin? He must have simply dreadful taste..."

Celegorm-"I'll have a word with Orome about this. No one bullies little Curu and gets away with it!"

Caranthir-*seizes massive hammer from forge* "So where does this Eonwe live?"

[Eonwe]

Herm, unless i am quite mistaken (which is not a bad assumption), was it not curufin and his brother caranthir who jealously and quite without honor attacked Beren and his fianse, luthian? this tells us something of their jealous nature, and another about their lack of kingly honor, which is easlily disernable in the character of ingwe.

Anyway, do you really think four measly elves would even be a small match for the herald of Manwe? First of, Maglor would only sing songs of regret and pain, which don't faze me in the least. And im sure Maedhros - always rational - would see how he couldn't honorably defend a brother that could conceive such a dastardly plan as killing the trees and stealing the silmarils. and don't you think stealing the silmarils would quite put curufin out of his father's good graces?

[Anguirel]

The Voice of Mandos confirms: Celegorm and Curufin, actually...but your point holds...

But there is no proof for your slanderous suggestion of Curufin's thievery. House Feanor have undying loyalty to each other. Why would this favoured son steal from his own father?

[mormegil]

Everybody this is the perfect time to get rid of Feanor. The silmarils have been created and if the trees are destroyed we can perhaps save them. Also getting rid of such a hot-headed jerk would save his wonderful sons Maedrhos and Maglor from entering into that awful oath and preventing the curse of the Noldor. I think it's time for this one trick pony to be put out to stud.

++Feanor

plus he never did a good job of defending the trees.

[Anguirel]

Ungoliant: 1
Manwe: 1
Ingwe: 3
Curufin: 1
Feanor: 1

Looks like the camp against idle blonde pretty Elves is more united than the camp against brooding, dark Byronic Elves...

[the guy who be short]

The first challenge-HORTICULTURE. Look after the island's source of light, the Two Trees. Make sure they're tended and watered properly and that no vandals can hurt them.

Hmm. Now who can we possibly think of that may be described as a vandal, or who may want to destroy the trees - and fail the task?

++Ungoliant.

[the phantom]

I'm shocked that you would even consider voting off poor Feanor!

The text makes it quite clear that Melkor's primary goal was to ruin Feanor-

he sought ever more eagerly how he should destroy Feanor

And a mere elf obviously has no chance of fully resisting Melkor's will. Even the Valar knew it. They told Feanor "none of the Valar canst thou overcome now or ever within the halls of Ea, not though Eru who thou namest had made thee thrice greater than thou art."

How could you possibly blame Feanor for being influenced by the greatest being in all of the world?! Even Hurin the Steadfast saw all things crooked after spending a while in Melkor's presence.

The only difference is, Melian reached out and helped Hurin. Feanor, on the other hand, was not helped, but was actually punished by the Valar! Punished, for being influenced by Ea's most powerful being! There is NO justification for such a punishment.

And why, I ask you, was Melkor free to spread his lies and sow discord in the world?

Because the Valar let him loose amongst the Elves!

The Valar deal proudly and incorrectly far too often! I think that we should definitely get rid of one of them.

I think Manwe in particular should be given the boot.

Tolkien has this to say about Manwe, in HoME X-

He (Manwë) has become engrossed (partly out of sheer fear of Melkor, partly out of desire to control him) in amendment, healing, re-ordering-- even "keeping the status quo"- to the loss of all creative power, and even to weakness in dealing with difficult and perilous situations.

Is that the sort of person you want to keep around to perform tasks?

+ + Manwe has to go!

[Anguirel]

A sudden flurry of controversy...

Ungoliant: 2
Manwe: 2
Ingwe: 3
Curufin: 2
Feanor: 1

Originally Posted by Gothmog

I've never liked Caranthir. Just listen to the "surname" the Dark.

Clear signs of prejudice from this villainous Balrog!

And the most despicable act of all was Curufin, beaten in battle by Beren, behind Berens back aiming and shooting, not one but TWO arrows at Luthien.

Yeah, well, her lovey-dovey singing and his whining were getting irritating. I would've done the same. Beren hardly played fair jumping on Curufin's neck, so shooting him in the back is an adequate response. And really, anything is acceptable to stop Little Miss Omnipotent.

revenge is a critical threat to the good atmosphere on the island.

And makes for good viewing!

I'm tempted to switch to Manwe, but only if my fellow anti-Ingweists give the go-ahead...

[Gothmog]

As I see it there's more than one tactic here.

One way to do this is to look at the task ahead and vote in a way which simplifies the dealing with it.

An other path to choose is to look further in to the future and try to eliminate possible threats to the other survivors in the long run. Or vote off those least needed on the island.

I would like to go for a combination. If we vote Manwe off, I'm sure the Valar would be quite upset and the chaos following when there's no natural leader might lead to a fight for the power. I guess both Ulmo and Aule wouldn't mind the title of King, not to mention about Melkor. And Varda might claim the title too, being the foremost among Queens with a strong support from the elves (O Elbereth!).

Ungoliant seems like the easy option, but is it to easy? Can she (it) be of use later?

There's some good reasons to vote Ingwe out. What good did he ever do? Spoiled children, all of those Vanyar... But on the other hand they didn't do any harm either. Rather vote Amarië than Ingwe however. What kind of woman stays at home when her beloved migrates to an other continent? bah...

I could go for Ingwe, but i think I'll...yes it has to be one of the 3 evil C's: Celegorm, Caranthir or Curufin. I've never liked Caranthir. Just listen to the "surname" the Dark. But it was Celegorm and Curufin that first imprisoned Luthien and then attacked Beren and Luthien in the woods. And the most despicable act of all was Curufin, beaten in battle by Beren, behind Berens back aiming and shooting, not one but TWO arrows at Luthien.

Therefore: ++Curufin.

He of no help regarding the "tree-quest" and he did a lot of things nobody would be proud of. I think the brothers thirst for power and revenge is a critical threat to the good atmosphere on the island.

Plus they always eats more than their share of rice