The Silmarillion Survivor

[the phantom]

And you never know when those Eagles may come in handy.

We don't need Manwe's eagles.

We have Tilion and Arien. They can handle all the up-in-the-air stuff. And later, we'll have Earendil. And if we are really in desperate need of air power, we can have Melkor make a batch of dragons.

he provides firm leadership

What good is Manwe's leadership if he's leading in the wrong direction? Not to mention, he freezes up and goes blank in difficult situations.

Melkor is a better leader. Sure, he's affiliated with evil, but according to the text he has a share of the gifts of all of his fellow Valar. That means that he can somewhat relate to all of them, and can understand what his fellow Valar are capable of, therefore he would be better than anyone at directing them.

And as far as him sowing seeds of discord, he wouldn't be doing that if everyone agreed to follow him, would he?

We need to get rid of Manwe while we have the chance!

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by the phantom

We have Tilion and Arien. They can handle all the up-in-the-air stuff. And later, we'll have Earendil.

While they may be good for carting heavenly bodies and the like around the skies, they are not much use when it comes to the precision stuff, like aerial reconaissance, rescue missions and personnel/cargo transport.

Originally Posted by the phantom

And if we are really in desperate need of air power, we can have Melkor make a batch of dragons.

Problem is, we'll have to wait a long time while he works his way through the wingless prototypes. Then again, Balrogs have wings, don't they? Perhaps we could rely on them ...

But no, I think Manwe should stay for now. Later, if and when Thorondor joins the show and another potential leader has emerged, I will not be averse to the idea of booting him out.

As for Melkor, I am not sure about him being appointed leader. I don't know, but there's just something about that guy that I don't trust.

[mormegil]

But we would need Manwe's eagles for the protection of Gondolin, which is my favorite Nolorian city.

[Lalaith]

And if we get rid of the blond ponce, the Vanyar might elect another, slightly less obsequious leader to replace him.

That Indis always had potential, I thought...I mean, look at her kids and her grandkids, they turned out pretty good...the best of the Noldor...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

It might have been Ingwe's idea to throw a party, but since there is no evidence I hold Manwe responsibel !

++Manwe

[the phantom]

the precision stuff, like aerial reconaissance, rescue missions and personnel/cargo transport

we would need Manwe's eagles for the protection of Gondolin

You know, I just thought- why would booting Manwe out get rid of the Eagles?

The eagles don't live and die with Manwe. They have their own life.

Don't you think it would be a good thing to get the eagles out from under the inept thumb of Manwe. I imagine whoever was elected as the new Valar leader would wield the eagles more wisely.

[mormegil]

One other important thing we are forgetting if Manwe is gone will Gandalf ever come to M-e? I don't thing anybody but the powerful leader Manwe could have convinced him to come.

[the phantom]

if Manwe is gone will Gandalf ever come to M-e?

Varda could send him. From Unfinished Tales, The Istari-

There are here also some rough tables relating the names of the Istari to the names of the Valar: Olorin (Gandalf) to Manwe and Varda...

[Anguirel]

Ungoliant-2
Manwe-3
Ingwe-3
Feanor-2
Curufin-3

I yearn to be rid of the useless and goody-two-shoes Ingwe, but may have to vote for Manwe to save Feanor and Curufin!

Come on, people. Vote Ingwe; he's a snooty fop, a blonde Aryan supremacist, a cowtowing Valar licking emasculated priceling, and I have a really amusing eviction description lined up for him, honest...

the phantom-switch to Ingwe for now and we'll Manwe-hunt tomorrow. Deal?

Oh, and the question of Gandalf is irrelevant. This game covers the Quenta Silmarillion, IE it'll end when the First Age does.

[arcticstorm]

-- Manwe ++Ingwe

I am doing this in order to save feanor and his son