The Silmarillion Survivor

[Gothmog]

I agree with the Saucepan Man. Valar need learn a lesson, beeing too stuck up. They need to climb of their high horses, but Manwe is no good choice. Eönwe never did anything important. His some kind of front figure, blowing in trumpets and declaring things in a high pitched voice. His all show. If valar looses one of their closest, maybe they'll realise that they're not immune to voting and they might not deny the Noldor their own free will.

To keep the peace we must keep everybody calm, and a strong leader will be very important. Therefor Manwe stays, a fight for the crown now would be devastating.

Blaming Olwe or Feanor, that's blaming a symptom. What we need to do is treat the sickness behind the symptom before it breaks out...

++Eönwë

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

BUT, today's task is diplomacy. So it is not the day to ditch the PR.

For diplomacy to work properly, the protagonists need to talk face-to-face, rather than one side relying on some sweet-talking spin-doctor. Communicating through intermediaries only increases the risk of mismanagement, miscommunication and misunderstanding. It seems to me that, if the Valar are forced to involve themselves directly in the lives of the Elves, rather than issuing solemn directives from on high, there will be a lot more co-operation and a lot less dischord.

Ditch the spin, I say.

[Anguirel]

Votes:

Eonwe: 2
Osse: 1

I see great sense in Saucie's plan. I've never liked that stuck-up Eonwe with his poncy heraldic goings-on, and it seems exceptionally cunning to stop the Teleri being commanded by disposing of the messenger.

However, the phantom's more direct and radical plan to do away with the ineffectual King of Arda also has merit, and I am mindful of my promise yesterday. Unless the phantom chooses to release me from my bond, I will join the anti-Manwe party.

Some further evidence for you to brood on: an extract from the Silmarillion Film Project's provisional script dealing with the First Kinslaying...

Originally Posted by Silm Film Script

Scene 35 Alqualondë

[Shot over the Noldor host. The banners of Feanor approach. The white swanships lie in the harbour.]

Harbour Master: The King has refused you passage! Turn back and make amends with the Valar.
Feanor: It is too late for that. Surrender your ships.
Mariner: What are you going to do, Feanor, King of the Noldor? Attack us?

[Laughing from the Teleri. Silence from the Noldor.]

Celegorm: Advance!

[The heavily armoured Noldor march forward. They start to step onto the ramps.]

Harbour Master: What is this insanity?
Mariner: Get off. We cannot let you on board.
Feanor: This is your last chance, mariners of the Teleri. You force our hands. Capitulate or...

[There is a splash. Several of the Noldor have been pushed into the sea. They sink rapidly. Feanor, Celegorm, and Curufin draw their swords. Curufin stabs the unarmed Harbour Master as he passes.]

Teleri Captain: Traitors and pirates! Archers, fire!

A clear corroboration of the phantom's view that the Teleri started the fight...

[Gothmog]

And an other evidence of the brute Curufin really are. Stabbing an unarmed man following his king's command... As soon as I get the chance, I'll make sure that criminal is thrown off the survivor island. My crusade has only begun...

How can you defend such an act of cruelness and such a lack of respect for life, Anguirel?

[Anguirel]

It's simply stylish villainy. Curufin's a cad in the splendid Three Musketeers tradition, so I thought that particular action would suit him...I took it somewhat from here...

Originally Posted by A Dumas film I saw last christmas

CARDINAL: You're mad!

CURUFINISH CHAP IN BLACK: Mad, Cardinal? I've been called that three times tonight. It must be so.

(He starts to leave. The Cardinal addresses one of his guards.)

GUARD: Shall I take him, my lord?

CARDINAL: Do so.

(The guard draws his rapier and rushes after the Curufinish villain. The Curufinish villain casually turns, runs him through and carries on walking out.)

It's called panache! Curufin is the John Malkovitch of the show, the Michael Corleone...

[mormegil]

I must keep reminding myself that this is mirth and not the proper forum to get into a heated debated as to where blame belongs for the kinslaying. So I will simply say to prevent the Elf on Elf slaying now and in the future we need to get rid of Feanor and his influence. When will it be that you all have your eyes opened and see that all problems for the Noldor are a result of this impetuous schmuck. Many future problems will be put to rest if we get rid of him now!

++FEANOR

[Gothmog]

Mormegil: It sounds as if you might join my crusade vs the Feanors. Although I prefer to get rid of Curufin, or one of the other Cs, Feanor has to go sooner or later... But for now I'll stick with Eönwe. To throw Feanor out now might cause the sons to go berserk. We must remember to stop the killing of elf by elf, and Feanor seems like the easy solution which proves the wrong one in the end...

How about getting Feanor & Co in a while, not right now?

Plus I must agree with Celuin; Eonwe has become a real braggart. He thinks he's better than everybody else just because Manwe favors him for the time being. I've heard a rumor that he got his eyes on Nessa too... Tulkas won't be happy and that might cause a lot of worries.

[Celuien]

Hmm, there certainly is a lot to be said for Sauce's plan. Manwe should take care of his own messages for any important diplomatic situation to be sure that there are no misunderstandings...and to prove that he's worthy of staying in this game. If he does come, I can't see the Elves getting into a fight in front of him - it's never good to cause trouble in front of the Boss. And if Manwe doesn't show up to make a declaration, I have to agree that there's still less chance that the either the Noldor or Teleri will start trouble. Either way, we've avoided a Kinslaying.

And Eonwe has become entirely too conceited since he got this job. All he does is brag about how he was chosen to be Manwe's Herald. It's very annoying.

++EONWE