The Silmarillion Survivor - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Anguirel · 10-14-2005, 06:32 AM

Votes:

Eonwe: 2
Osse: 1

I see great sense in Saucie's plan. I've never liked that stuck-up Eonwe with his poncy heraldic goings-on, and it seems exceptionally cunning to stop the Teleri being commanded by disposing of the messenger.

However, the phantom's more direct and radical plan to do away with the ineffectual King of Arda also has merit, and I am mindful of my promise yesterday. Unless the phantom chooses to release me from my bond, I will join the anti-Manwe party.

Some further evidence for you to brood on: an extract from the Silmarillion Film Project's provisional script dealing with the First Kinslaying...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silm Film Script

Scene 35 Alqualondë

[Shot over the Noldor host. The banners of Feanor approach. The white swanships lie in the harbour.]

Harbour Master: The King has refused you passage! Turn back and make amends with the Valar.
Feanor: It is too late for that. Surrender your ships.
Mariner: What are you going to do, Feanor, King of the Noldor? Attack us?

[Laughing from the Teleri. Silence from the Noldor.]

Celegorm: Advance!

[The heavily armoured Noldor march forward. They start to step onto the ramps.]

Harbour Master: What is this insanity?
Mariner: Get off. We cannot let you on board.
Feanor: This is your last chance, mariners of the Teleri. You force our hands. Capitulate or...

[There is a splash. Several of the Noldor have been pushed into the sea. They sink rapidly. Feanor, Celegorm, and Curufin draw their swords. Curufin stabs the unarmed Harbour Master as he passes.]

Teleri Captain: Traitors and pirates! Archers, fire!

A clear corroboration of the phantom's view that the Teleri started the fight...

Gothmog · 10-14-2005, 07:32 AM

And an other evidence of the brute Curufin really are. Stabbing an unarmed man following his king's command... As soon as I get the chance, I'll make sure that criminal is thrown off the survivor island. My crusade has only begun...

How can you defend such an act of cruelness and such a lack of respect for life, Anguirel?

Anguirel · 10-14-2005, 07:41 AM

It's simply stylish villainy. Curufin's a cad in the splendid Three Musketeers tradition, so I thought that particular action would suit him...I took it somewhat from here...

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Dumas film I saw last christmas

CARDINAL: You're mad!

CURUFINISH CHAP IN BLACK: Mad, Cardinal? I've been called that three times tonight. It must be so.

(He starts to leave. The Cardinal addresses one of his guards.)

GUARD: Shall I take him, my lord?

CARDINAL: Do so.

(The guard draws his rapier and rushes after the Curufinish villain. The Curufinish villain casually turns, runs him through and carries on walking out.)

It's called panache! Curufin is the John Malkovitch of the show, the Michael Corleone...

mormegil · 10-14-2005, 09:03 AM

I must keep reminding myself that this is mirth and not the proper forum to get into a heated debated as to where blame belongs for the kinslaying. So I will simply say to prevent the Elf on Elf slaying now and in the future we need to get rid of Feanor and his influence. When will it be that you all have your eyes opened and see that all problems for the Noldor are a result of this impetuous schmuck. Many future problems will be put to rest if we get rid of him now!

++FEANOR

Gothmog · 10-14-2005, 09:38 AM

Mormegil: It sounds as if you might join my crusade vs the Feanors. Although I prefer to get rid of Curufin, or one of the other Cs, Feanor has to go sooner or later... But for now I'll stick with Eönwe. To throw Feanor out now might cause the sons to go berserk. We must remember to stop the killing of elf by elf, and Feanor seems like the easy solution which proves the wrong one in the end...

How about getting Feanor & Co in a while, not right now?

Plus I must agree with Celuin; Eonwe has become a real braggart. He thinks he's better than everybody else just because Manwe favors him for the time being. I've heard a rumor that he got his eyes on Nessa too... Tulkas won't be happy and that might cause a lot of worries.

mormegil · 10-14-2005, 11:18 AM

Gothmog the problem is that Feanor will be gone in a couple of scenarios anyway, according to the way I understand it. But I really want to get rid of him now and change the course of Noldorian history. He's a git and need to be done away with. Perhaps there is a chance to save his sons if he's done away with now.

Anguirel · 10-14-2005, 11:57 AM

Since my suzerain lord the phantom has not absolved my allegiance, allowing me to vote for Eonwe...

++MANWE

True, his downfall will cause internecine chaos among the Valar.

But out of adversity unity might be born...

Votes:

Eonwe-3
Osse-1
Feanor-1
Manwe-1

Celuien · 10-14-2005, 07:35 AM

Hmm, there certainly is a lot to be said for Sauce's plan. Manwe should take care of his own messages for any important diplomatic situation to be sure that there are no misunderstandings...and to prove that he's worthy of staying in this game. If he does come, I can't see the Elves getting into a fight in front of him - it's never good to cause trouble in front of the Boss.

And if Manwe doesn't show up to make a declaration, I have to agree that there's still less chance that the either the Noldor or Teleri will start trouble. Either way, we've avoided a Kinslaying.

And Eonwe has become entirely too conceited since he got this job. All he does is brag about how he was chosen to be Manwe's Herald. It's very annoying.

++EONWE

10-14-2005, 07:32 AM	#2
Gothmog Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Where I lay my head is home Posts: 421	And an other evidence of the brute Curufin really are. Stabbing an unarmed man following his king's command... As soon as I get the chance, I'll make sure that criminal is thrown off the survivor island. My crusade has only begun... How can you defend such an act of cruelness and such a lack of respect for life, Anguirel? __________________ Three switched witches watch three Swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watch which Swatch watch switch? He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom ~Lurker...

10-14-2005, 09:03 AM	#4
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	I must keep reminding myself that this is mirth and not the proper forum to get into a heated debated as to where blame belongs for the kinslaying. So I will simply say to prevent the Elf on Elf slaying now and in the future we need to get rid of Feanor and his influence. When will it be that you all have your eyes opened and see that all problems for the Noldor are a result of this impetuous schmuck. Many future problems will be put to rest if we get rid of him now! ++FEANOR __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

10-14-2005, 09:38 AM	#5
Gothmog Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Where I lay my head is home Posts: 421	Mormegil: It sounds as if you might join my crusade vs the Feanors. Although I prefer to get rid of Curufin, or one of the other Cs, Feanor has to go sooner or later... But for now I'll stick with Eönwe. To throw Feanor out now might cause the sons to go berserk. We must remember to stop the killing of elf by elf, and Feanor seems like the easy solution which proves the wrong one in the end... How about getting Feanor & Co in a while, not right now? Plus I must agree with Celuin; Eonwe has become a real braggart. He thinks he's better than everybody else just because Manwe favors him for the time being. I've heard a rumor that he got his eyes on Nessa too... Tulkas won't be happy and that might cause a lot of worries. __________________ Three switched witches watch three Swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watch which Swatch watch switch? He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom ~Lurker...

10-14-2005, 11:18 AM	#6
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	Gothmog the problem is that Feanor will be gone in a couple of scenarios anyway, according to the way I understand it. But I really want to get rid of him now and change the course of Noldorian history. He's a git and need to be done away with. Perhaps there is a chance to save his sons if he's done away with now. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

10-14-2005, 11:57 AM	#7
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	Since my suzerain lord the phantom has not absolved my allegiance, allowing me to vote for Eonwe... ++MANWE True, his downfall will cause internecine chaos among the Valar. But out of adversity unity might be born... Votes: Eonwe-3 Osse-1 Feanor-1 Manwe-1 __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

10-14-2005, 07:35 AM	#8
Celuien Riveting Ribbiter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Assigned to Mordor Posts: 1,767	Hmm, there certainly is a lot to be said for Sauce's plan. Manwe should take care of his own messages for any important diplomatic situation to be sure that there are no misunderstandings...and to prove that he's worthy of staying in this game. If he does come, I can't see the Elves getting into a fight in front of him - it's never good to cause trouble in front of the Boss. And if Manwe doesn't show up to make a declaration, I have to agree that there's still less chance that the either the Noldor or Teleri will start trouble. Either way, we've avoided a Kinslaying. And Eonwe has become entirely too conceited since he got this job. All he does is brag about how he was chosen to be Manwe's Herald. It's very annoying. ++EONWE __________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.

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