The Silmarillion Survivor

[Gothmog]

Mormegil: It sounds as if you might join my crusade vs the Feanors. Although I prefer to get rid of Curufin, or one of the other Cs, Feanor has to go sooner or later... But for now I'll stick with Eönwe. To throw Feanor out now might cause the sons to go berserk. We must remember to stop the killing of elf by elf, and Feanor seems like the easy solution which proves the wrong one in the end...

How about getting Feanor & Co in a while, not right now?

Plus I must agree with Celuin; Eonwe has become a real braggart. He thinks he's better than everybody else just because Manwe favors him for the time being. I've heard a rumor that he got his eyes on Nessa too... Tulkas won't be happy and that might cause a lot of worries.

[mormegil]

Gothmog the problem is that Feanor will be gone in a couple of scenarios anyway, according to the way I understand it. But I really want to get rid of him now and change the course of Noldorian history. He's a git and need to be done away with. Perhaps there is a chance to save his sons if he's done away with now.

[Anguirel]

Since my suzerain lord the phantom has not absolved my allegiance, allowing me to vote for Eonwe...

++MANWE

True, his downfall will cause internecine chaos among the Valar.

But out of adversity unity might be born...

Votes:

Eonwe-3
Osse-1
Feanor-1
Manwe-1

[the phantom]

I, too, vote + + MANWE, for previously stated reasons.

But, if one of the Noldor is close to being lynched, I will change my vote to save him.

If I do this then that will release you from your pact with me, Anguirel.

I am willing to vote for about anyone to save the Noldor, who received the majority of the malice of Morgoth. In particular I pity Feanor, who Melkor hated above all else, and who, when he understandably messed up, was punished instead of helped by the over-proud Valar, which of course just made him worse.

There is no way that Feanor should go before his time.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I, too, vote + + MANWE
But, if one of the Noldor is close to being lynched, I will change my vote to save him.

Do not tell them that! They will use it against you ! (in this case us)

++Manwe

He is to blame !

[Formendacil]

Diplomacy, eh? So we lynch... er... remove, the least diplomatic?

Feanor goes. Definitely.

Sorry, Anguirel- and all your crazed, Feanorian-loving crowd, but you set the specs here, and Feanor is most definitely the most undiplomatic being in the Silm. Look at his record: he ticks off the Valar, and gets them to not only Ban him, but all his people. He ticks off the Teleri, and manages to upset Noldorin relations with Alqualonde- and Menegroth for that matter- for centuries. He ticks off Melkor, the most powerful being in Arda, and is so undiplomatic as to slam a door in his face. He ticks off his brothers, and gets himself banished from Tirion. He ticks off the Noldor and loses 3/4 of his people....

Feanor may or may not be a great guy. Unlike certain Mormegils in the crowd, I don't see any great need to villify him. But is definitely the least diplomatic Elf to ever roam Valinor or Middle-Earth- including his sons Caranthir, Celegorm, and Curufin...

So, like it or not:

++ Curufinwe Feanaro Finwion

[Anguirel]

To that I would say...trust diplomats to ruin diplomacy. A straight-talking orator who says what he feels can achieve wonders...

Votes:

Eonwe-3
Osse-1
Feanor-2
Manwe-2

[the phantom]

trust diplomats to ruin diplomacy. A straight-talking orator who says what he feels can achieve wonders

I completely agree.

And Formendacil, regarding your attack on Feanor-

He ticks off Melkor

Is that bad?

He ticks off his brothers

All of them ticked each other off. Melkor made sure of that.

and gets himself banished from Tirion

Quite right. All of the Noldor are influenced by Morgoth, and yet only Feanor is singled out for severe punishment by the Valar.

For doing what? For not being able to resist the power of the most powerful being in all of Ea? That's hardly a crime.

And the Silmarillion says that when the Valar banished him from Tirion it made Melkor's lies appear to be true.

Brilliant move, Manwe! Way to heal the situation! Make the evil bad guy look like he was right all along!

That's the worst thing you could possibly do! It's as if the Valar wanted to push Feanor down the dark path!

I'm sorry, but there is no way we could've expected Feanor to remain unchanged by Melkor's malice. Melkor is too powerful, and his focus was on Feanor in particular. Feanor was going to be affected, just like Hurin the Steadfast was when exposed to Morgoth.

When Melkor's evil was discovered, the Valar should've tried to undo his lies, but instead they took a course of action that made his lies appear to be true in Feanor's eyes.

So, in other words, they made Feanor's condition, which he could not help, even worse!

After that, what do you expect to happen? Good things?

The Valar are most definitely to blame.

No doubt about it.

No question.

[Anguirel]

Eonwe-3
Osse-1
Feanor-2
Manwe-3

This could be my last update...essays and ultimately sleep beckon. As I say, it would be great if someone intermittently recorded votes so I can blearily see who's to be kicked out early tomorrow morning...