LotR1-FotR-Seq01

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by AragronII

There is one thing I would change though. I don't know if this should go here but since it relates to the Prologue, I'll say it. I think that PJ should have used the opening sequence of ROTK(loved that sequence btw) in FOTR as well as the current sequence.

I would disagree with you there. I think that the Smeagol/Deagol sequence and Smeagol's transformation works much better once we have got to know Gollum as a character. The full horror of seeing him as he once was works well when we already have the combination of sympathy and revulsion for him that his role in TTT brings.

Originally, I believe that it was intended to be included in the Dead Marshes scene, when Frodo calls Gollum by his original name and the camera pans in on Gollum's expression. But it works well as an opener to RotK, setting up the revelation of the Ring's full effect on Frodo and the link that is made between Gollum's experience and Frodo's possible future.

But I am getting way ahead of us here ...

[Mister Underhill]

mormegil and a few others who followed up his comments -- thanks for making that point about the first experience. It's easy to lose sight of that. I went to a midnight screening too, and it was like you say -- die-hard Tolkien fans. Some were aging hippies, some were just young kids, and collectively they had the look of a crowd you'd expect to see at a comic-con or skulking around the sci-fi/fantasy section of your local bookstore. It was a Tolkien crowd, a book crowd, that had camped out for that first showing, and they were all amped for the film, myself included.

And though I can analyze the prologue sequence rather dispassionately now, I have to agree that Jackson delivered in those first few minutes, when the rest of the trilogy was all just a wide-open possibility.

radagastly, great point about that close-up shot of the Ring and the finger of Sauron's gauntlet. I don't think I consciously recognized it, but that shot for sure signals that the viewer is in for a very lovingly crafted Middle-earth, and even in the few cases where I disagree with design choices, I can't argue with the passion and craftsmanship with which they're executed.

[Glirdan]

I was just kind of scanning through the thread so forgive me if I repeat something.

1) Loved the narraration from Cate. I much perfered her saying it at the beginning of the series then Treebeard saying it in the middle of it. Her voice added a really cool effect. It made the scene even more dark and eiriesome. Loved the elven voices in the background. Also added an eriesome effect to the scene. Galadriel speaking in elven at the beginning automatically makes you think about how different our world and Tolkien's world is. Her saying "History became legend, legend..." so on so forth, really made a difference and makes you think "Wow! That much time has passed already?"

2)The Last Alliance parts overall were really good. A few things did bug me though. - First, where in Eru's name did Sauron come from? Did he come out of a hole in the ground? Did he come out from behind a boulder? Did he just magically appear there? Where did he come from!?!?
- Two, the fact that everyone was really surprised that Sauron showed up annoyed me to death. I mean come on. You're standing in HIS realm fighting HIS army. Why wouldn't he show up?
- Three. I swear, when Sauron was exploding and it showed a group of Elves, I could have sworn that I saw Legolas there. I've been puzzling about this forever and I STILL can't draw any conclusions or theories on it.
- Four. Sauron breaking the sword. Why did he step on it? I thought there was something more to it. I thought there was a fabulous battle in which the sword was broken by the mace. And since when did he become six fingered? I thought Isildur cut off his FINGER not his FINGERS.
- Why on Middle-Earth was Sauron reaching for Isildur? Why not finish him off with the mace? I mean Isildur was laying there at the mercy of Sauron. Why wouldn't you just make it easier and attack him with the mace?
Other than that, the scene was fine. Fell in love when I saw the syncriniztion of the Elves when the Orcs started coming at him.

3) The Ambush was not quite how I liked it after reading The Unfinished Tales. Why did Isildu float and not sink? I mean he was wearing all that heavy armour. Why was he floating? He must have weighed at least two hundred to three hundred pounds with all that on. The smug look he had on and then him getting ambushed made me really happy. He deserved what he got.

4) The darkness spreading had a really good effect on showing how dark the times were at that point in time. Loved it.

5) The Ring bouncing off the rocks. That's what annoyed me. I've always been thinking that The Ring just fell off of Gollum's finger, just like it did to Isildur. I mean, it's like The Ring betrayed Gollum, isn't it?

6) Bilbo finding it. Another thing that annoyed me. In The Hobbit, he bumped his head on the ground and got knocked out. When he found The Ring in the movie, it didn't look like he was gropping(sp?) around in the dark, trying to get up. It looked like he saw it on the ground and picked it up and said "Why isn't this a nice pretty piece of jewlery. Maybe I'll sell it when I get back home."

And that's it. Other than those few little spots, loved the first scene. Again, I'm pretty sure a lot of this has probably been said, but I only scanned throught the posts. Don't have time to go back and read all of them thouroughly.

[Essex]

re the last few posts about Sauron reaching down to Isildur - It was ARROGANCE. He no doubt was reaching for him to kill him in his bare hands, but like any soldier/commander who has arrogance, they can be defeated because of it.

re the amount of fingers cut off Sauron's hand - really, if we're getting het up about the amount of fingers cut off, then woe betide us for the rest of these discussions!!!!!!!

Sauron 'just appearing' - I haven't deeply delved into posts on why Sauron (or Tom) did not disappear when putting on the Ring, but why can’t Sauron make himself invisible with the Ring on IF HE WANTED? - Then appear (as if by magic!) right infront of the Alliance to scare the bee Jesus out of them! Plus, as Silmarillion states, the reason why he turned up to fight (only at the end) was

But at the last the siege was so strait that Sauron himself came forth

[drigel]

I do like the prologue. Blanchettes voice using Treebeard's lines was good for me. A good introduction that in ME there are creatures, like elves, among others, that are undying, and can feel the passage of time in the air the water the stones, etc. It also sets the thing up like- "here in this early time, Im already feeling so old... " nice.

I too go back to the 1st cinema impression with the prologue. Also, it reminds me of that 1st cinema experience for that first Star Trek movie. That feeling of- Finally, the long wait is over- its here!!! PJ also sets up the anxiety ridden Tolkien geek as well as the nonTolkien movie goer. Kind of shows that the Tolkien geeks can rest easy for the rest of the film, as the sweeping grandeur of the works will not be ignored, or the interpretation wont be half hearted.

I know that PJ cant spend a prologue explaining the characters: "here is Elendil and GilGalad. Elrond is GilGalad's standard bearer and Isildur and Anarion are Elendil's sons"..... but the whole chopping off the fingerS of Sauron by Isildur seemed weak to me. Like, if it werent for the accidental chopping off of S's fingerS, all would have been a disaster. To me, the dramatics were already there: It was over, at that point. After a seven year seige, the forces of good won. Sauron came down after this fact was woefully obvious, and did battle with Elendil and GilGalad. Death came to all three. Isildur cut the ring off of the broken body of the defeated Sauron, and disregarding the advice from Elrond, kept it for himself. Seems that the plot line of how all things seemed to look wonderfull at the absolute victory of the war, except for one small thing.... could have worked out well there.

[mormegil]

There is one major drawback to the way you just described drigel and that would be time. I can't imagine showing the last alliance winning the day and then Sauron coming forth, the fight to the death and Isildur finally cutting off the ring. That would have taken at least 10 to 15 minutes to do. Plus you would alienate a huge audience with such a large battle at the beginning. I think it was well done in that it showed how powerful Sauron was/is and that without his ring his power is lessened. That is the main point we need from this and it was well done for the time allotted.

[drigel]

Yea I agree mormegil! Sadly, I still get peeved at the notion that the plot line implies that the fingerS chop and Sauron's demise was an accidental occurence.

ill get over it