Help Please!

[The Saucepan Man]

In my view, it would have been a big mistake to have included the Scouring of the Shire in the films. Don't get me wrong. Being a Hobbit (and especially Merry and Pippin) fan, it is one of my favourite chapters. It works wonderfully in the book, bringing a resolution to the development of the Hobbit characters and providing a fitting ending for Saruman and Wormtongue. But the pacing of a book is very different to the pacing of a film.

To have done the Scouring justice on screen would have required at least 15 minutes of screen time, most probably more. In my opinion, it simply would not have worked on film to have the main climax to the film, folowed by 15 minutes plus of build-up to a second (mini) climax. As it is, one of the only consistent points of criticism that I have heard from (non-Tolkien fan) film critics of RotK (and, by implication, the trilogy) is that it took too long to end. It is some 20 minutes from the destruction of the Ring to the moment the final credits start to roll. That is pretty unheard of in films of this nature. I think Jackson just about got away with it although, as I said, he did attract criticism from professional reviewers for it. To have included an additional 15 minutes plus of "ending" (bringing the conclusion to something like a seventh of the running time) would have been something that no director would have done (*anticipates citation of obscure films with prolonged endings ...* ). The Scouring would have replaced some of the Shire scenes, but we need to see the Fellowship reunited, we need to see Aragorn crowned, we need to see him reunited with Arwen, we need to see the Hobbits honoured, we need to see Sam get together with Rosie and, of course, we need to see the Grey Havens (imagine the furore if that had been left out ). That doesn't leave much room for the Scouring.

Originally Posted by Legolas

The 'time problem' with the ending going on too long could've been solved easily by removing the unnecessary Jackson-conceived scenes (such as Aragorn going over the cliff, Elrond and Arwen debating). This would've allowed the story to remain in sync with the book's pacing.

I am afraid that I have to disagree. Freeing up time earlier in the trilogy does not get over the problem of the prolonged ending. The book can take the Scouring because the book is longer and, in any event, the optimum pacing of a book is, as I said, different from the optimum pacing of a film.

Originally Posted by Legolas

This meant both the encounter with Shelob (Frodo/Sam's climax of TTT) and Orthanc's end (the conclusion of the Rohan path) had to be moved to Return of the King (or in Saruman's case, deleted).

I agree that the Orthanc scene should have been included at the end of TTT (to conclude Saruman's role in the story). But, given that Jackson (sensibly, in my view) adopted a chronological approach to telling the two strands of the story, rather than adopting the book's sequential approach, it was necessary either to move Shelob to RotK or to move the run-up to the Siege of Minas Tirith to TTT. The reason being that Frodo's encounter with Shelob occurs at about the same time as the Siege (or at least, the run-up to it). Personally, I think that the whole Cirith Ungol sequence makes a sensible addition to what would otherwise be a rather uneventful journey (in film terms) through Mordor.

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

EDIT 2: Oh, also something about they ran out of money and Elijah was already committed to Sin City... you know, Hollywood stuff.

Is that right, Mister U? I would be surprised if money was an issue. Surely the Scouring would not require a great deal of money to film (comparative to many of the other scenes in the films). And, as for Woods' other committments, why would that have been a problem given that all three films were pretty much filmed together? My understanding is that Jackson and his fellow writers made a decision pretty early on to exclude the Scouring, for pretty much the reasons that I have outlined above. But I may well be wrong. If you are able to tell more, Mister U, please do.