The Silmarillion Survivor

[Lalaith]

Yes, Celuien, I'm not too happy at all about Galadriel being gone. What's Tory Boy playing at? I thought he liked her?

Your shortlist makes sense, though. However, Tuor is the only Man left, I think we should leave him. Ditto Idril, the only remaining Lady of the Noldor.
Of the three remaining candidates, I'm inclined to vote ++GLORFINDEL because I think we're going to need the other two in the long term.

[Anguirel]

I do like Galadriel. And Celeborn. And Celebrimbor. And Nienor.

Unfortunately they form almost the entire contestant population of Nargothrond, and I felt it would be a bit unconvincing if the great horde of Morgoth destroyed the kingdom but only succeeded in slaying a Petty-Dwarf...

And let's keep my poor beleaguered Jacobite liberal Royalist Romantic Cameronista pro-hunting politics out of this, if you please...

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Glorfindel seems the most logical. Some other way of dispatching
a Balrog can be envisioned, say, an attack by the Eagles putting the
Balrog offbalance and falling off a cliff.

[Anguirel]

Without Manwe, the Eagles aren't coming...

I say Idril. Her escape route is already built for the others, and I wish to be revenged on her for her prissy, disdainful treatment of Maeglin. Besides, with Idril gone Glorfindel, who I made fall in love with her if you recall, will have no incentive to turn traitor.

++IDRIL

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Arien. An everlasting darkness will aid Morgoth. Why, you ask? Well, the reason is........



........it's all about the special effects.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

This is a hard decision to make because the fall of Gondolin will happen no mather what. . .

It seems that our quest is to get even more people killed or lessen the loss of Morgoth's forces.

I will go with the last one and the thing that would insure a even more devestating victory is too. . . . Get rid of Arien. This way Gondolin will have even shorter time to muster their defense in and therfor they will not be abel to kill as many Balrogs/Orcs/whatever.

++Arien

[Anguirel]

Actually, I may decide to keep Gondolin standing if your choice is especially flimsy. Don't rule out the possibility!

[arcticstorm]

I would like to point out something about Glorfindel. He loves Idril and is jealous of Tuor, he will more than likely be the one to betray its location to Morgoth.

[Anguirel]

Or is that just what I want you to think?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

This is a hard decision to make because the fall of Gondolin will happen no mather what. . .

OK, forget this quote it did not happen!

What I really wrote was : This is a hard decision to make because it is highly unlikely that Gondolin will not fall, unless we forget our objective and vote off Morgoth or Mandos, Doom of

[Gothmog]

I don't think it matters much what who we vote for of the people in Gondolin. They'll probably die anyway. Like in Nargothrond, did it matter who died from the eviction? No, Ang will make sure every elf in Gondolin in slaughtered, believe me!

But, as Glorfindel and the late Ecthelion are two favourites of mine, I'll vote

++Arien

To give Glorfindel a chance to survive. If he's not stupid enough to go and challenge one of those noble and beautiful, misunderstood creatures called Balrogs. I mean, they have to defend themselves, don't they? If some hot headed young elf lord startes a fight, off course they're going to use some self-defence! Don't blame them!

The darkness will help the creatures of Morgoth by concealing them, demoralize the defenders and create chaos when the battle begin. But at the same time I hope it will conceal some refugees fleeing the destruction. After all, our task is the fall of Gondolin, not total devastation.

And the score so far: (I think)
Idril---------1
Glorfindel----2
Arien--------3

[Celuien]

Hmm. Especially flimsy...

We could vote off Sauron. I've suspected for some time that Sauron frequently visited Gondolin in disguise as a traveling salesman by the name of Wili Lomion. He got in by pretending to be the real Lomion, but then sold vinyl siding. Once the sample case came out, though, he was invariably evicted. He never gave away the location before since he always hoped he could make a great sale and earn a big commission. Now that the real Lomion is dead, this disguise won't work anymore, so if our traveling salesman really is Sauron, he has no incentive to keep Gondolin's location secret from Morgoth.

Does anyone else share this suspicion? If not, I'll either vote for Glorfindel or join any upcoming wacky theories to get rid of Morgoth or Mandos, Doom of.

[arcticstorm]

We need to keep Earendil alive. SO hmm, this is a tough vote, because Melkor does not know where Godolin is yet, he doesn't even have a clue, so i cannot see it being betrayed and I see know way for it to fall yet. So what I will do is vote for ++Glorfindel based on Angmod's thing about them not being betrayed by Glorfindel and his Balrog fighting, he would be a good choice.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I don't get why you vote Glorfindel it is not like it helps bringing down Gondolin, neither does it speed up the proces. The only thing that will happen is that we will find out if there is another elf among those who escaped the fall who is mighty enough to take on a Balrog.

That's what I think at least. . .

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I don't get why you vote Glorfindel it is not like it helps bringing down Gondolin, neither does it speed up the proces. The only thing that will happen is that we will find out if there is another elf among those who escaped the fall who is mighty enough to take on a Balrog.

That's what I think at least. . .

Ah, buy maybe we're trying to invoke the flimsy argument clause. Or at least to minimize damage. Plus, the other leader in the vote count is Arien, whose elimination would certainly spell disaster. Glorfindel may have to earn my vote just to break the current tie and save the sun.

In fact, let's just vote now.
++GLORFINDEL
I'll switch to Idril if I am no longer needed on the Arien preservation front.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Celuien

Ah, buy maybe we're trying to invoke the flimsy argument clause.

But isn't the point to try to pass the challenge?

It seems slightly strange that those who would save Gondolin if they could are given no disincentive to fail the challenge. Surely there should be some sanction ...

In any event, I shall apply my mind to passing the challenge. The way Ang has set things up, it seems that Idril, Tuor and Glorfindel need to stay alive in order to provoke Glorfindel into turning traitor and revealing to Morgoth the location of Gondolin. Unless some other resident of the city could be persuaded to turn traitor (thus saving Gorfindel from carrying out the ignoble task).

But who?

The only other citizen of Gondolin up for eviction, as far as I can see, is Salgant and I can't see any ready means of persuading him to turn traitor.

Hmm, unless someone comes up with anything better, I am going to have to vote for Arien. When's the deadline for today, Ang?

[Anguirel]

In theory it was now, Saucie, but I see I neglected to mention that, so vote away and then I'll close it and do the write-up.

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, in the absence of any better ideas, and to enhance the efficacy of Morgoth's forces, I shall vote:

++ARIEN

[Anguirel]

Voting closed:

Glorfindel-4
Idril 1
Arien-4

(I think. Do tell me if I'm wrong...)

Glorfindel and Arien are both doomed, and perhaps Gondolin with them...

[Anguirel]

Due to Mediaeval Hist essay, I've postponed the write-up to tomorrow morning. Awfully sorry...

[Lalaith]

*nods*... the fall of Gondolin requires undivided attention....

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY FIFTEEN (M-e)

Arien was increasingly depressed by the land she lit up each morning; she watched the power of the Dark Lord spread, but could not halt it; saw the Elven kingdoms falling one by one. She was also stangely lonely. She had not appreciated Tilion and his crude advances, but now he was dashed to pieces she had no one at all to talk to. She began composing rather grim poetry, and at last determined on suicide, diverting her alloted course and shattering her ship against the peaks of Thangorodrim. She had the satisfaction of seeing Morgoth's fabled mountains warp and distort in the heat before she died.

Meanwhile, Glorfindel was dispatched outside the Encircling Mountains to harry an Orc army, but he was taken unawares and captured. Glorfindel was no craven, but the methods of Morgoth forced Gondolin's position out of him. Then the dark Lord read his mind and offered him Idril; but he spat at Morgoth's feet and defied him before he died, broken by torment.

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Gondolin was now bereft of many of her Captains, but Idril had long ago began to prepare a passage of escape into the mountains, warned in dreams by Ulmo. Yet she had come to treasure Gondolin, and could not envisage its fall; so only those who could not fight, with Earendil and Salgant, were sent away, and Tuor and Idril marshalled the defence.

The army that had been destroyed at Nargothrond was a quarter of the strength Morgoth now sent. Angband was at least half-emptied; all of Ancalagon's spawn, led by the dragon Scatha, were there, and the remaining Balrogs. But the walls of Gondolin were vast, and Tuor determined to make the city hold as long as it could.

The flying dragons, and some few of the Balrogs who had wings, assailed the rampants while the Orcs shifted their siege towers; but many were driven back by skilled archers. Scatha, fearless and terrible, seized Idril and enveloped her in his length; and Tuor rushed to her aid. His fight with the long-wyrm was lengthy, but at last he dealt it a mortal wound when it was distracted by Idril's flailings. But in its death-throes it crushed his wife.

Now Tuor was fey and mad with grief; and he fought on, though without hope, reducing Orcs at every turn, and burning walls that would fall into their hands. He knew that the passage must be defended; but the captain of the Balrogs discerned his purpose, and assailed him on a pinnacle above a chasm. They struck each other, and fell to their deaths together; but the passage was saved. So fell Gondolin, though only a fraction of its attackers survived its taking.

Challenge coming this afternoon...

[Anguirel]

It's Day Sixteen in Middle-earth! The remaining contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Ereinion Gil-Galad
Salgant

TELERI/SINDAR

Mablung
Cirdan
Elwing
Celebrian

MAIA

Uinen

PEREDHIL

Earendil
Elrond
Elros

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron

Task sixteen: restoration. The losses to Morgoth's armies have caused a temporary respite, but the Silmaril of Elwing has great potential to cause division. Try and stop another Kinslaying breaking out.

[Lalaith]

I'm a bit cross about the gratuitous slaughter of Idril and Tuor. There is now not a single mortal left....unless you count Elros.
Do you want us to complete the task by eviction or can we do marriage as well?

[Anguirel]

The only marriagiable females are Uinen and Elbereth, unless you plan on divorcing Elwing from Earendil...

I assure you I didn't want to lose Tuor at least, but it's the same old problem-it's tricky to have a Massive Siege of Doom where no-one important dies...

[Lalaith]

Hmmm...we could matchmake Elbereth with Mandos, get him in a sweet honeymoon mood and lose the Doom....

[Anguirel]

I think Vaire might object to that!

[Lalaith]

I see no Vaire on the list....but ok, fair enough. I just fancied a bit of romance after the wholesale slaughter we've been having recently....

[Anguirel]

I do see your point, and I like setting matchmaking challenges, but the possiblities are frightfully slim at the moment unless I get uncanonical and drag in Lalwende and Findis...

EDIT: How stupid I am! I've forgotten all about Celebrian! Onto the list she goes...

[Gothmog]

This was a great write-up Ang! Even if some important characters perished, they went down with pride. Both Glorfindel and Tuor defied the forces of evil until their last shivering breath.

Now let's see. Elwing have a Silmaril and who would be most likely to want to get his/her/it's hands on it? Of course Maedhros and Maglor is our prime suspects. And of those two it's quite clear who's the leading one: Maedhros. If we evicted Maedhros I don't think Maglor will go for the jewel. Listen to these words spoken by the great singer and poet:

If none can release us then indeed the Everlasting Darkness shall be our lot, whether we keep our oath or break it; but less evil shall we do in the breaking."

Problem is I like Maedhros and I'm sure Ang won't like this idea. But it seem like the best solution right now. I can't find any more Silmaril-claimers and a kinslaying of other reasons isn't likely to happen. But I'm open for suggestions! Any other candidates?

[Lalaith]

I should mention that I've really been enjoying the write-ups as well Ang. (I wish I could rep you for them, but I need to spread myself around a bit more first...)

[Lalaith]

Oh and as for the challenge: after that bit of buttering up there, I'm afraid I have to confess that I can't come up with a better alternative to Gothmog's scheme, I think either Maedhros or Maglor have to go.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Oh my, what a disarster. . .

Alot of quiestions comes to mind : What grusom things can Morgoth have done to Glorfindel, that would make him tell the postion of Gondolin and how did the orc's manage to get those siege towers over the mountains ?


Gothmog Cruise speaks words of wisdom, but I will wait and think this one over before I vote.

[Gothmog]

and some few of the Balrogs who had wings, assailed the rampants while the Orcs shifted their siege towers

You tread a dangerous path my friend Better hope BW don't see this. He's a no-wings fanatic if I've understood everything right.

But back to the topic. Maedhros or Maglor you say Lalaith, but to me Maedhros is the only poosible choice. He's the driving force in the duet. If we evicted Maglor I'm afraid his older brother could still decide to take the Silmaril, whereas Maglor probably won't if he's alone. Let's see what arguments Ang may have to let them stay!

Gothmog Cruise speaks words of wisdom

Thank you mister Marx, my fellow revolutionary viking

[Lalaith]

Oh I don't know Gothmog.
Maedhros feels just awful about the whole thing, and has done almost from the start. If ever there was a son of Feanor who wished he'd never heard of the Silmaril, or the silly Oath, it is Maedhros.
He'd do the right thing, given half the chance.

[Gothmog]

What you say is true Lalaith, but remember what happened when the same opportunity rose in the real silm? Only Maedhros and Maglor remained of the brothers and Maglor hesitated but

Yet he yielded at last to the will of Maedhros, and they took counsel together how they should lay hands on the Silmarils

That last twitch of evil from Maedhros side has always confused me. To this point, Maedhros has always been the restraining power among the brothers. He has been the one to keep his brothers from doing rash things, but now he's the one speaking for the stealing of the jewels. Why this change? Has the struggle finally made him give up his norms in life? Many questions but few answers. Almost the material to a new thread if one work on it a while... But the fact remains: in the end Maedhros is the driving force behind the stealing of the Silmarils AND they're making themselves guilty of more kinslaying as the guards were killed. He's most responsible for that too.

[Lalaith]

*nods* hmmm, maybe you're right. I think Maglor regretted everything even more than Maedhros did.
I know, maybe Maedhros can be evicted, then Maglor can get a nice girlfriend to sing his songs to, and forget all his woes and troubles...

[Gothmog]

To be sure I don't miss out on this voting (don't now the deadline and I have problems keeping ttrack of different times here) I'm going to vote now, and the reason I vote like I do is as always found in my earlier post(s)

++Maedhros

Sorry Ang. He was a great man (elf), especially compared to his brothers, but to save the peace he has to go. I'm not happy to do this...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I allways liked Maedhros, but to prevent another kinslaying he has to go. I allso belive that Maglor will turn "good" as a result of this.

++Maedhros

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Maedhros.

Others have said my reason.