The Silmarillion Survivor - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gothmog · 11-08-2005, 05:30 PM

To be sure I don't miss out on this voting (don't now the deadline and I have problems keeping ttrack of different times here) I'm going to vote now, and the reason I vote like I do is as always found in my earlier post(s)

++Maedhros

Sorry Ang. He was a great man (elf), especially compared to his brothers, but to save the peace he has to go. I'm not happy to do this...

Rune Son of Bjarne · 11-08-2005, 05:37 PM

I allways liked Maedhros, but to prevent another kinslaying he has to go. I allso belive that Maglor will turn "good" as a result of this.

++Maedhros

The 1,000 Reader · 11-08-2005, 06:16 PM

++Maedhros.

Others have said my reason.

Alcarillo · 11-08-2005, 06:27 PM

++Maedhros

Isn't he still High King? After sitting on that throne for so long, I think it's about time that Maedhros passed his crown to another.

Celuien · 11-08-2005, 06:48 PM

Arrgh. I don't want to vote off Maedhros. He reformed so nicely in the revised version of events given by the Ang-mod.

Unfortunately, Maedhros seems the most logical choice right now. Unless - unless we vote off Morgoth and hope that the problems he caused for the Noldor will vanish with him. After all, I doubt that the original Feanor would have had anything to do with a Kinslaying if not for Morgoth's treachery. Nor would there have been problems between the Noldor in the first place, even before the Doom of Mandos, without him.

So, in hopes that any remaining malice or temptation for Elves to kill each other can be removed by voting off the main source of evil in Arda, my choice for elimination is

++MORGOTH

Save the noble Maedhros!

Lalaith · 11-09-2005, 03:05 AM

Hmm....the Morgoth argument is a good one but then we lose out on the almighty fight at the end, don't we?
I'm also going to have to go for
++MAEDHROS

Look after poor Maglor, won't you Anguirel?

Gothmog · 11-09-2005, 05:21 AM

I don't think the eviction of Morgoth will stop the Feanorians lust to own the Silmarils and their urge to fulfil their oath. The possible kinslaying will probably occur as a result of the struggle for the Silmarils and Morgoth part in that tale is already over. If it was possible, an eviction of the Oath of Feanor could stop a kinslaying and leave Maedhros in the game, but there's no such choice...

Celuien · 11-09-2005, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Hmm....the Morgoth argument is a good one but then we lose out on the almighty fight at the end, don't we?

Possibly. But I guess Sauron could grow into the ultimate bad guy for the big battle if we did vote off Morgoth.

arcticstorm · 11-09-2005, 07:25 AM

Doesn't Elwing still have the silmarill? If we can evict her maybe the new bearer will give it up willingly to the sons of feanor still alive. I do not see any reason why their claim to it should have been taken away in this Silarillion, it seems that the Sindar have done the most elf-elf violence. With the exceptions of Celegorm and Curufin thr sons of feanor haven't attacked their fellow elves, so maybe if we evict Elwing they will give MAedhros the silmarill

++Elwing

Anguirel · 11-09-2005, 08:01 AM

There are two sides to every conflict. If Elwing and her her family can be induced to hand back the Silmaril peaceably, it will not burn Maedhros and war will be stopped without the tragic necessity of evicting the great High King of the Noldor.

Remember Elwing has no feud with the brothers. Indeed, they avenged her family's death by wiping out Telchar's Dwarves. It may be easier to reach a compromise.

Let's look at who is currently influencing Elwing's decision in Sirion.

Ereinion Gil-Galad-an ambitious scion of Fingolfin's house. Stands to gain the High Kingship if Maedhros and Maglor fall. However, a noble and chivalrous character not connected particularly to any desire for the Silmaril.

Salgant-probably jealous of Maglor's harp prowess, but an inveterate coward who would like to avoid war.

Mablung-the last of the Doriath old guard, took part in the hunting of Carcharoth and served the over-mighty Melian. Remembers the Quest of the Silmaril and will resent giving it up.

Cirdan-ancient, wise, peacable, not possessive.

Celebrian-young, but of high and ambitious blood. May resent the Silmaril's surrender, but doesn't have the power to influence Elwing Mablung does.

Earendil-concerned with voyaging and getting help from the West. Does not yet connect this with the Silmaril.

Elrond
Elros-Elwing's children. Remembering her brothers, she will desire to keep them safe, by avoiding war. May be hardened to battle if they die.

So, as an alternative to Maedhros, I suggest Mablung. The voting will close at 7:30 tomorrow morning. I know it's been a long day...I'm a bit snowed under...

++MABLUNG

Gothmog · 11-09-2005, 08:19 AM

Haven't the sons of Feanor attacked any fellow elves with the exception of Celegorm and Curufin? Wasn't all the sons in on the first kinslaying of Alqualonde? And were not all the brother's present in Doriath when it was attacked? As all but the dead Curufin, Celegorm and Caranthir was present at the battle at the mouth of Sirion? And at last, Maedhros and Maglor was alone in the last slaying at the time of the Silmaril-theft.

And as for the claim of the Silmaril, that can be discussed. One may think that if someone brings back a jewel from the deeps of Angband, from the crown of the Dark Lord himself, then that gives you the right to own the jewel in question. The brothers had forsaken their right to the Silmarils, which was proved when they finally got their hands on them and was tormented by the very touch.

One thing is different from the "real" version: when Maedhros and Maglor were the only survivors of the brother's, the Silmarils in centre of the disagreement was the two from the overthrown Morgoth's crown. Now it's the Silmaril of Elwing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The text above was written as a respons to arcticstorm's post, but now I see Ang has finally stepped forward to defend his dear Maedhros.

To have Elwing hand over the jewel of free will is a good idea. But how will Earendil get to Valinor to raise the Host of Valar in the coming war? And do you really think Mablung has that power? If Elwing wanted to hand over the Silmaril to Maedhros, she'll do that whatever Mablung says. And I doubt he would go as far as kinslaying to get it back if it was given to the last sons of Feanor. He was never such an important character in the Quest. Sure, he will resent giving it up but I can't imagine his words stopping Elwing if she wants to give it away. If we evict Maedhros she will either give it to Maglor or keep it. Either way, we win.

Lalaith · 11-09-2005, 08:39 AM

Unless Ang is planning something seriously uncanonical, somebody needs to get to Valinor, and that somebody needs the holy jewel to get there.

Celuien · 11-09-2005, 09:10 AM

Well, I'll go along with our esteemed mod and hope there are enough votes/vote changes to save Maedhros.

--MORGOTH
++MABLUNG

arcticstorm · 11-09-2005, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothmog

Haven't the sons of Feanor attacked any fellow elves with the exception of Celegorm and Curufin? Wasn't all the sons in on the first kinslaying of Alqualonde?

remember there was no first kinslaying at Alqualonde, we prevented that from ever taking place

11-08-2005, 05:30 PM	#1
Gothmog Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Where I lay my head is home Posts: 421	To be sure I don't miss out on this voting (don't now the deadline and I have problems keeping ttrack of different times here) I'm going to vote now, and the reason I vote like I do is as always found in my earlier post(s) ++Maedhros Sorry Ang. He was a great man (elf), especially compared to his brothers, but to save the peace he has to go. I'm not happy to do this... __________________ Three switched witches watch three Swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watch which Swatch watch switch? He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom ~Lurker...

11-08-2005, 06:16 PM	#3
The 1,000 Reader Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: I don't know. Eastern ME doesn't have maps. Posts: 527	++Maedhros. Others have said my reason. __________________ "And forth went Morgoth, and he was halted by the elves. Then went Sauron, who was stopped by a dog and then aged men. Finally, there came the Witch-King, who destroyed Arnor, but nobody seems to remember that." -A History of Villains

11-08-2005, 06:48 PM	#5
Celuien Riveting Ribbiter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Assigned to Mordor Posts: 1,767	Arrgh. I don't want to vote off Maedhros. He reformed so nicely in the revised version of events given by the Ang-mod. Unfortunately, Maedhros seems the most logical choice right now. Unless - unless we vote off Morgoth and hope that the problems he caused for the Noldor will vanish with him. After all, I doubt that the original Feanor would have had anything to do with a Kinslaying if not for Morgoth's treachery. Nor would there have been problems between the Noldor in the first place, even before the Doom of Mandos, without him. So, in hopes that any remaining malice or temptation for Elves to kill each other can be removed by voting off the main source of evil in Arda, my choice for elimination is ++MORGOTH Save the noble Maedhros! __________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.

11-09-2005, 03:05 AM	#6
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Hmm....the Morgoth argument is a good one but then we lose out on the almighty fight at the end, don't we? I'm also going to have to go for ++MAEDHROS Look after poor Maglor, won't you Anguirel? __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

11-09-2005, 05:21 AM	#7
Gothmog Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Where I lay my head is home Posts: 421	I don't think the eviction of Morgoth will stop the Feanorians lust to own the Silmarils and their urge to fulfil their oath. The possible kinslaying will probably occur as a result of the struggle for the Silmarils and Morgoth part in that tale is already over. If it was possible, an eviction of the Oath of Feanor could stop a kinslaying and leave Maedhros in the game, but there's no such choice... __________________ Three switched witches watch three Swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watch which Swatch watch switch? He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom ~Lurker...

11-08-2005, 06:27 PM	#4
Alcarillo Shadow of the Past Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minas Mor-go Posts: 1,007	++Maedhros Isn't he still High King? After sitting on that throne for so long, I think it's about time that Maedhros passed his crown to another.

11-09-2005, 07:25 AM	#9
arcticstorm Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Johnson Bible College: Knoxville, TN Posts: 464	Doesn't Elwing still have the silmarill? If we can evict her maybe the new bearer will give it up willingly to the sons of feanor still alive. I do not see any reason why their claim to it should have been taken away in this Silarillion, it seems that the Sindar have done the most elf-elf violence. With the exceptions of Celegorm and Curufin thr sons of feanor haven't attacked their fellow elves, so maybe if we evict Elwing they will give MAedhros the silmarill ++Elwing

11-09-2005, 08:01 AM	#10
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	There are two sides to every conflict. If Elwing and her her family can be induced to hand back the Silmaril peaceably, it will not burn Maedhros and war will be stopped without the tragic necessity of evicting the great High King of the Noldor. Remember Elwing has no feud with the brothers. Indeed, they avenged her family's death by wiping out Telchar's Dwarves. It may be easier to reach a compromise. Let's look at who is currently influencing Elwing's decision in Sirion. Ereinion Gil-Galad-an ambitious scion of Fingolfin's house. Stands to gain the High Kingship if Maedhros and Maglor fall. However, a noble and chivalrous character not connected particularly to any desire for the Silmaril. Salgant-probably jealous of Maglor's harp prowess, but an inveterate coward who would like to avoid war. Mablung-the last of the Doriath old guard, took part in the hunting of Carcharoth and served the over-mighty Melian. Remembers the Quest of the Silmaril and will resent giving it up. Cirdan-ancient, wise, peacable, not possessive. Celebrian-young, but of high and ambitious blood. May resent the Silmaril's surrender, but doesn't have the power to influence Elwing Mablung does. Earendil-concerned with voyaging and getting help from the West. Does not yet connect this with the Silmaril. Elrond Elros-Elwing's children. Remembering her brothers, she will desire to keep them safe, by avoiding war. May be hardened to battle if they die. So, as an alternative to Maedhros, I suggest Mablung. The voting will close at 7:30 tomorrow morning. I know it's been a long day...I'm a bit snowed under... ++MABLUNG __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

11-09-2005, 08:19 AM	#11
Gothmog Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Where I lay my head is home Posts: 421	Haven't the sons of Feanor attacked any fellow elves with the exception of Celegorm and Curufin? Wasn't all the sons in on the first kinslaying of Alqualonde? And were not all the brother's present in Doriath when it was attacked? As all but the dead Curufin, Celegorm and Caranthir was present at the battle at the mouth of Sirion? And at last, Maedhros and Maglor was alone in the last slaying at the time of the Silmaril-theft. And as for the claim of the Silmaril, that can be discussed. One may think that if someone brings back a jewel from the deeps of Angband, from the crown of the Dark Lord himself, then that gives you the right to own the jewel in question. The brothers had forsaken their right to the Silmarils, which was proved when they finally got their hands on them and was tormented by the very touch. One thing is different from the "real" version: when Maedhros and Maglor were the only survivors of the brother's, the Silmarils in centre of the disagreement was the two from the overthrown Morgoth's crown. Now it's the Silmaril of Elwing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The text above was written as a respons to arcticstorm's post, but now I see Ang has finally stepped forward to defend his dear Maedhros. To have Elwing hand over the jewel of free will is a good idea. But how will Earendil get to Valinor to raise the Host of Valar in the coming war? And do you really think Mablung has that power? If Elwing wanted to hand over the Silmaril to Maedhros, she'll do that whatever Mablung says. And I doubt he would go as far as kinslaying to get it back if it was given to the last sons of Feanor. He was never such an important character in the Quest. Sure, he will resent giving it up but I can't imagine his words stopping Elwing if she wants to give it away. If we evict Maedhros she will either give it to Maglor or keep it. Either way, we win. __________________ Three switched witches watch three Swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watch which Swatch watch switch? He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom ~Lurker...

11-09-2005, 08:39 AM	#12
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Unless Ang is planning something seriously uncanonical, somebody needs to get to Valinor, and that somebody needs the holy jewel to get there. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

11-09-2005, 09:10 AM	#13
Celuien Riveting Ribbiter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Assigned to Mordor Posts: 1,767	Well, I'll go along with our esteemed mod and hope there are enough votes/vote changes to save Maedhros. --MORGOTH ++MABLUNG __________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.

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