Middle-Earth Football Tournament - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**The Saucepan Man** · 11-17-2005, 08:02 PM

Beleg (Doriath): 6
Ugluk (Isengard): 6
Pippin (The Shire): 5
Turin (Nargothrond): 5
Aragorn (Gondor): 3
Azog (Moria): 3
Legolas (Mirkwood): 3
Sauron (Tol-In-Gauroth): 3
Sleepy Ranger (Barrow Downs): 3
The Saucepan Man (Barrow Downs): 3
Tom Bombadil Old Forest): 3
Turgon (Gondolin): 3
Varda (Valimar): 3
Ancalagon the Black (Angband): 2
Arvedui (Arnor): 2
Dark Lord (Mordor): 2
Faramir (Gondor): 2
Gothmog (Angband): 2
Haldir (Lothlorien): 2
Tar-Meneldur (Numenor): 2
Thorin (Erebor): 2

Finally, some real competition for Beleg. Ugluk is out of the running as his team have failed to qualify from the Group, which is a shame as he has become something of a goal machine. But another goal from the young Took sensation keeps him well in contention, and Turin's hat trick has rocketed him up the table. He may not have mastered his fate, but his superb mastery of the ball is paying dividends for him and his team.

But none on the leaderboard can be discounted, especially not the Barrow Downs star pairing, Saucepan and Sleepy. With an unbeaten record and an impressive display in their most recent match, the Downs team look like living up to their status as favourites for the cup and more goals can certainly be expected from these two.

Edit: Sleepy since Yavanna was sent off I have assumed that Varda scored Valimar's goal, but please let me know if I am wrong.

*******************************

IMPROPMTU PRESS CONFERENCE WITH DOWNS STRIKER THE SAUCEPAN MAN IN RESPONSE TO RECENT PRESS RUMOURS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some scurrilous reporter of the Peredhil

Responsible for the prestigious Golden Boots Award, it is speculated that The Saucepan Man intends to usurp the award and add to it the soon-to-be collectors items and auction them off on ME-bay.

Slander! At the end of the day, I intend to win the trophy fairly and squarely. It's a game of two halves and a competition of three, er, four rounds and, as the man above said, I'm certainly in the running. In fact, I think that I may have to pull rank and relieve Sleepy of penalty duty ...

*nudge from team coach, Mister Underhill*

... er, but of course, at the end of the day, it's results that count and I'm just happy to be contributing to our team's success.

Now, if you'll excuse me, some guy from a kitchenwear company wants to talk to me about their ad campaign.

the phantom · 11-17-2005, 10:53 PM

There is one more round of games left. Let's look at who is playing and what the possible outcomes are.

Mordor versus Moria

This game does not matter. Both Mordor and Moria are advancing.

In these sort of situations some teams rest key players. Other teams prefer to play all out and go for bragging rights. I expect Moria, the weaker team, to rest all of their best players in hopes of making a solid run in the next round. Mordor will also let lots of non-starters play, but they will probably rotate the Nazgul in a few at a time just for practice. The Nazgul don't really get worn out and are not prone to injury the way normal beings are, so there isn't much of a need to rest them.

So, given this, I predict a meaningless win for Mordor. If Moria puts out a particularly weak line, look for The Dark Lord to jump into the game and score a quick goal. He is always ready to pad his stats. And trust that if he hops in quick for something like that, he will be extra careful not to get a card. That happened to him once and he learned his lesson. In addition, there isn't an orc in Moria that can injure Sauron even if he tried, so there's no danger of that happening.

Mordor wins.

Rivendell versus Arnor

Whoever wins this game will advance. If they tie, Arnor will advance.

But there's not going to be a tie.

It turns out my sources were telling the truth- Rivendell was indeed drugged before the tournament. Elrond inspected all of their water jugs and such they had brought on the trip, and every one of them had been compromised. But now that the problem has been taken care of, look for Rivendell to return to their usual form- very good.

The great Elven knights Elladen, Elrohir, and Glorfindel will score goals, and Elrond will stop Arnor from scoring. Rivendell has never failed to advance to the round of 16 before, and they won't fail now.

Rivendell wins.

Valmar versus Woodhall

This game does not matter. The Barrow-Downs and Valimar have already advanced (I assume, Sleepy, that since Valimar beat Valmar in the end of the game shootout that they own the tie-breaker over Valmar should both end up with four points).

Will Valmar and Woodhall try to win for pride's sake, or will they both be apathetic and depressed knowing that they're already going home? I don't know, and I won't try to guess, but I think I'll have to pick Valmar to win just because of their superior talent.

Valmar wins.

Mirkwood versus Ephel Brandir

The winner of this game will advance. Should they tie, Mirkwood will advance.

I'm not sure who to pick in this one. They are fairly evenly matched. However, Mirkwood is prone to mental breakdowns. Last year Mirkwood's goalie, Galion the butler, chose to drink strong wine at halftime instead of water, which resulted in him allowing fourteen balls to roll through the door during the second half. Did he learn his lesson? Probably so, but I'm still not sure Mirkwood can win. Then again, I can't see Ephel Brandir winning it either. Their players can kick hard but aren't very accurate, which is why everyone calls them "the clubfooted team".

I think this one ends in a draw.

Belegost versus Bree

The winner of this match advances. If they tie, Belegost will advance.

Bree is missing Barliman and Ferny. Barliman is a leader on the field, and Ferny, though a trouble maker, is a fine athlete. I don't think Bree can overcome being without those two players. Even with them I would probably take Belegost.

Belegost wins.

Tol-In-Gaurhoth versus Doriath

This game is meaningless. Both teams have already qualified.

So, what will these teams do? Rest their best players? Go all out and try to remain undefeated?

If the teams rest their players, look for Tol-In-Gaurhoth to slaughter Doriath. There is considerable drop-off from Beleg-Mablung-Thingol-Saeros-Melian down to the second line. Gaurhoth's drop is not that extreme. Sauron, Draugluin, and Thuringwethil are certainly Gaurhoth's top players, but after those three there is almost no difference whatsoever between the next 30 players. So, if both teams rest, Gaurhoth will win. Their defense is extremely good, so Doriath won't score, and I can see them putting two goals or three past Doriath's second and third liners.

If both teams play full strength, I will still pick Gaurhoth, but in a closer contest. Despite Gaurhoth's tough D, Doriath has an exceptional offense and will put up a goal or two, but Doriath's comparably weaker defense will allow Gaurhoth to score at least two goals between Drauglin's craftiness, Thuringwethil's quickness and aerial abilities, and Sauron's typical off-the-charts play.

Tol-In-Gaurhoth wins.

Fangorn versus Crickhollow

If Fangorn wins then Fangorn and Alqualonde advance.

If they tie then Fangorn and Alqualonde advance.

If Crickhollow wins then they will advance, but I'm not sure who will advance with them- Fangorn or Alqualonde. They tied in their head to head match up and I don't remember seeing anything about an end of the game shootout so I don't know who owns the tie-breaker between the two.

This game all depends on Fangorn. If they show up looking Entish, then go with them. If they show up looking treeish, pick Crickhollow. I personally think they'll be someplace between the two, and no one will score resulting in a tie.

Fangorn and Crickhollow tie. Fangorn advances.

Gondolin versus Angband

Whoever wins this match will advance.

It's really unfortunate that one of these teams has to be eliminated. They are both top-ten teams and I would've liked to see both of them in the next round. But alas, in a strong group someone must go before their time, and that someone is Gondolin.

Gondolin is a crowd favorite and certainly a good team, but they simply do not stack up against Angband. Gondolin has one of the best offenses in the tournament, but Angband has the best defense by far. Their Balrog defenders will neutralize Gondolin's attack. They will not score more than one goal, despite their talent.

Angband, on the other hand, will score more than once. Gondolin's defense is simply not up to the challenge of facing a very motivated Ancalagon and Gothmog.

Angband wins.

Tomorrow I will give my take on the next round.

Valesse · 11-17-2005, 11:49 PM

Due to the "cancelation of a group interview" the much awaited interrogation will be busted into individual conversations with our greatest dear (and fear) Movie-Arwen.

(In other words I couldn't fit everyone on the same page

)

Roa_Aoife · 11-18-2005, 12:12 AM

I have to say I'm cheering for the Downs, but I am looking favorably at the Shire, mostly because I can't help but love the under-dog. Hey, they've made some bold moves in the past! Don't underestimate them- that's how Rings of Power get destroyed.

Did someone mention Mascots?
Old Forest- Goldberry!
Mordor- How bout a guy in a Mount Doom costume?
Moria- They could be crual and use a dwarf
Rohan- A horse, duh

Shire- That's a hard one, but what about a Green Dragon?
Rivendell- Another hard one, but it should probably be an Elf. Really, what else would they have?
Barrow Downs- We should all vote on this. I suggest a poll after suggestions come in. Of course, with BW as a player, the obvious answer is out. How bout a ghost?
Valmar/Valimar- They practically are thier own mascots!
Goblin-Town- A Jack-o-lantern!
Isen Guard- Grima?
Fangorn- See Valimar
Gondor- A ranger!
Angbad- Literally, Iron-hell, so whatever it is, this theme should be incorporated

Can I be a commentator at the finals? It's my goal in life! Just read my sig!

**The Saucepan Man** · 11-18-2005, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the pahntom

This game does not matter. Both Mordor and Moria are advancing.

Actually, this game (and others like it) are not entirely meaningless. Quite apart from the kudos of winning the Group, if we are following the usual World Cup rules, Group winners will play Group runners-up. So winning the Group usually means playing the weaker of the two qualifiers from another Group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the phantom

(I assume, Sleepy, that since Valimar beat Valmar in the end of the game shootout that they own the tie-breaker over Valmar should both end up with four points).

No, that penalty shoot-out was meaningless. In the event of two teams being tied, it goes on goal difference (goals for minus goals against). If goal difference is the same, I am not sure what happens, although I am sure that there is some desperately complicated formula.

Sleepy Ranger · 11-18-2005, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Actually, this game (and others like it) are not entirely meaningless. Quite apart from the kudos of winning the Group, if we are following the usual World Cup rules, Group winners will play Group runners-up. So winning the Group usually means playing the weaker of the two qualifiers from another Group.

Yea, you're right about that but I planned on doing random draws for the K.O stages but I may go by the actual rules now, we'll see.

Quote:

No, that penalty shoot-out was meaningless. In the event of two teams being tied, it goes on goal difference (goals for minus goals against). If goal difference is the same, I am not sure what happens, although I am sure that there is some desperately complicated formula.

As per the actual rules if the goal difference is equal then the recent performances of both teams agains each other are taken into view, if they are similar on that then it is decided by a coin toss.
Not really complicated now, is it? Anyway since we don't really have any past results it will be Valimar that qualifies due to the penalty shoot out if they end with the same points and goal difference by which Valimar is currently ahead.

Sleepy Ranger · 11-18-2005, 03:25 PM

I'm sorry but its impossible for me to get results up today. I'll have them up tomorrow though.

Sorry about that I know many people can't wait for the Gondolin-Angband match up but I can't get it up today. Again I'm really sorry but I'll have them early tomorrow.

Gothmog · 11-18-2005, 03:53 PM

It's OK. No really, it is! I might hold a grudge towards you a year or ten, but it's OK!

Actually I'll use this time to make a prediction of the result of this tournament. If they don't have to meet each other before, I think my two favourite teams; Shire and Angband will meet in the final. With Pippin in his present form and Gandalf in the team, Shire can't loose. Especially not if they have a green dragon as mascot! And Angband will win against Gondolin with 3-1 and then crush the other opponents on their way to final.

But what about Shire vs Angband? Well, it will be a match to remember. Two great teams in a final battle for the honour and the title. But Angband will come out as the stronger team, perheps not until injury time, but they will prevail in the end. An even match with two teams with both strong defense and effective offense, oh I', looking forward to it already!

Hey Sleepy, you said something about movies of the games. Is it maybe possible to present highlights from the more important matches from now on? If it's not too much trouble, that would be great!

11-17-2005, 10:53 PM	#2
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	There is one more round of games left. Let's look at who is playing and what the possible outcomes are. Mordor versus Moria This game does not matter. Both Mordor and Moria are advancing. In these sort of situations some teams rest key players. Other teams prefer to play all out and go for bragging rights. I expect Moria, the weaker team, to rest all of their best players in hopes of making a solid run in the next round. Mordor will also let lots of non-starters play, but they will probably rotate the Nazgul in a few at a time just for practice. The Nazgul don't really get worn out and are not prone to injury the way normal beings are, so there isn't much of a need to rest them. So, given this, I predict a meaningless win for Mordor. If Moria puts out a particularly weak line, look for The Dark Lord to jump into the game and score a quick goal. He is always ready to pad his stats. And trust that if he hops in quick for something like that, he will be extra careful not to get a card. That happened to him once and he learned his lesson. In addition, there isn't an orc in Moria that can injure Sauron even if he tried, so there's no danger of that happening. Mordor wins. Rivendell versus Arnor Whoever wins this game will advance. If they tie, Arnor will advance. But there's not going to be a tie. It turns out my sources were telling the truth- Rivendell was indeed drugged before the tournament. Elrond inspected all of their water jugs and such they had brought on the trip, and every one of them had been compromised. But now that the problem has been taken care of, look for Rivendell to return to their usual form- very good. The great Elven knights Elladen, Elrohir, and Glorfindel will score goals, and Elrond will stop Arnor from scoring. Rivendell has never failed to advance to the round of 16 before, and they won't fail now. Rivendell wins. Valmar versus Woodhall This game does not matter. The Barrow-Downs and Valimar have already advanced (I assume, Sleepy, that since Valimar beat Valmar in the end of the game shootout that they own the tie-breaker over Valmar should both end up with four points). Will Valmar and Woodhall try to win for pride's sake, or will they both be apathetic and depressed knowing that they're already going home? I don't know, and I won't try to guess, but I think I'll have to pick Valmar to win just because of their superior talent. Valmar wins. Mirkwood versus Ephel Brandir The winner of this game will advance. Should they tie, Mirkwood will advance. I'm not sure who to pick in this one. They are fairly evenly matched. However, Mirkwood is prone to mental breakdowns. Last year Mirkwood's goalie, Galion the butler, chose to drink strong wine at halftime instead of water, which resulted in him allowing fourteen balls to roll through the door during the second half. Did he learn his lesson? Probably so, but I'm still not sure Mirkwood can win. Then again, I can't see Ephel Brandir winning it either. Their players can kick hard but aren't very accurate, which is why everyone calls them "the clubfooted team". I think this one ends in a draw. Belegost versus Bree The winner of this match advances. If they tie, Belegost will advance. Bree is missing Barliman and Ferny. Barliman is a leader on the field, and Ferny, though a trouble maker, is a fine athlete. I don't think Bree can overcome being without those two players. Even with them I would probably take Belegost. Belegost wins. Tol-In-Gaurhoth versus Doriath This game is meaningless. Both teams have already qualified. So, what will these teams do? Rest their best players? Go all out and try to remain undefeated? If the teams rest their players, look for Tol-In-Gaurhoth to slaughter Doriath. There is considerable drop-off from Beleg-Mablung-Thingol-Saeros-Melian down to the second line. Gaurhoth's drop is not that extreme. Sauron, Draugluin, and Thuringwethil are certainly Gaurhoth's top players, but after those three there is almost no difference whatsoever between the next 30 players. So, if both teams rest, Gaurhoth will win. Their defense is extremely good, so Doriath won't score, and I can see them putting two goals or three past Doriath's second and third liners. If both teams play full strength, I will still pick Gaurhoth, but in a closer contest. Despite Gaurhoth's tough D, Doriath has an exceptional offense and will put up a goal or two, but Doriath's comparably weaker defense will allow Gaurhoth to score at least two goals between Drauglin's craftiness, Thuringwethil's quickness and aerial abilities, and Sauron's typical off-the-charts play. Tol-In-Gaurhoth wins. Fangorn versus Crickhollow If Fangorn wins then Fangorn and Alqualonde advance. If they tie then Fangorn and Alqualonde advance. If Crickhollow wins then they will advance, but I'm not sure who will advance with them- Fangorn or Alqualonde. They tied in their head to head match up and I don't remember seeing anything about an end of the game shootout so I don't know who owns the tie-breaker between the two. This game all depends on Fangorn. If they show up looking Entish, then go with them. If they show up looking treeish, pick Crickhollow. I personally think they'll be someplace between the two, and no one will score resulting in a tie. Fangorn and Crickhollow tie. Fangorn advances. Gondolin versus Angband Whoever wins this match will advance. It's really unfortunate that one of these teams has to be eliminated. They are both top-ten teams and I would've liked to see both of them in the next round. But alas, in a strong group someone must go before their time, and that someone is Gondolin. Gondolin is a crowd favorite and certainly a good team, but they simply do not stack up against Angband. Gondolin has one of the best offenses in the tournament, but Angband has the best defense by far. Their Balrog defenders will neutralize Gondolin's attack. They will not score more than one goal, despite their talent. Angband, on the other hand, will score more than once. Gondolin's defense is simply not up to the challenge of facing a very motivated Ancalagon and Gothmog. Angband wins. Tomorrow I will give my take on the next round. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

11-17-2005, 11:49 PM	#3
Valesse Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: \|Away Posts: 614	Due to the "cancelation of a group interview" the much awaited interrogation will be busted into individual conversations with our greatest dear (and fear) Movie-Arwen. (In other words I couldn't fit everyone on the same page ) __________________ "Loo, what sholde a man in thyse dayes now wryte, 'egges' or 'eyren'?" - Caxton, Eneydos Last edited by Valesse; 11-18-2005 at 08:05 AM.

11-18-2005, 12:12 AM	#4
Roa_Aoife Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it. Posts: 1,696	I have to say I'm cheering for the Downs, but I am looking favorably at the Shire, mostly because I can't help but love the under-dog. Hey, they've made some bold moves in the past! Don't underestimate them- that's how Rings of Power get destroyed. Did someone mention Mascots? Old Forest- Goldberry! Mordor- How bout a guy in a Mount Doom costume? Moria- They could be crual and use a dwarf Rohan- A horse, duh Shire- That's a hard one, but what about a Green Dragon? Rivendell- Another hard one, but it should probably be an Elf. Really, what else would they have? Barrow Downs- We should all vote on this. I suggest a poll after suggestions come in. Of course, with BW as a player, the obvious answer is out. How bout a ghost? Valmar/Valimar- They practically are thier own mascots! Goblin-Town- A Jack-o-lantern! Isen Guard- Grima? Fangorn- See Valimar Gondor- A ranger! Angbad- Literally, Iron-hell, so whatever it is, this theme should be incorporated Can I be a commentator at the finals? It's my goal in life! Just read my sig! __________________ We can't all be Roas* when it comes to analysing...* -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen

11-18-2005, 03:25 PM	#7
Sleepy Ranger Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: On the field, kissing the 'Downs crest Posts: 1,654	Sorry I'm sorry but its impossible for me to get results up today. I'll have them up tomorrow though. Sorry about that I know many people can't wait for the Gondolin-Angband match up but I can't get it up today. Again I'm really sorry but I'll have them early tomorrow. __________________ And tonight we can truly say, together we're invincible... Middle-Earth Football World Cup 2007

11-18-2005, 03:53 PM	#8
Gothmog Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Where I lay my head is home Posts: 421	It's OK. No really, it is! I might hold a grudge towards you a year or ten, but it's OK! Actually I'll use this time to make a prediction of the result of this tournament. If they don't have to meet each other before, I think my two favourite teams; Shire and Angband will meet in the final. With Pippin in his present form and Gandalf in the team, Shire can't loose. Especially not if they have a green dragon as mascot! And Angband will win against Gondolin with 3-1 and then crush the other opponents on their way to final. But what about Shire vs Angband? Well, it will be a match to remember. Two great teams in a final battle for the honour and the title. But Angband will come out as the stronger team, perheps not until injury time, but they will prevail in the end. An even match with two teams with both strong defense and effective offense, oh I', looking forward to it already! Hey Sleepy, you said something about movies of the games. Is it maybe possible to present highlights from the more important matches from now on? If it's not too much trouble, that would be great! __________________ Three switched witches watch three Swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watch which Swatch watch switch? He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom ~Lurker...

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