Tolkien and Norse Mythology

[Gothmog]

Lalaith:

The Valar seem more like the Aesir/Vanir to me than the Graeco-Roman gods. For example, Vaire, the weaver who depicts past, present and future, is reminiscent of the Norns, who weave fate into their tapestries.

I agree. Both the Valar and the Aesir (is it called that in English? Asar in Swedish...) are parts of a polytheistic world, altough the mythology of ME features a monotheistic faith as well in the form of Eru. As with the Aesir (or greek/roman or egyptian) gods, each Vala has it's own speciality. One could for example compare Manwe with Odin, the kings of the Valar/Aesir, both great in wisdom. And of course the parallel between Vaire and the Norns. And yes, to me the Valar feels closer to the Aesir than to the Greek/Roman gods.

And as reply to Anguirel: I hope you didn't misunderstand me, I'm not questioning the greatness of the British heritage from Celts/Saxons/Normans. But I do believe that Tolkien felt that it was not enough, he wanted ONE mythology for the English people to which they could trace their roots, something that do not exist in England. "It's the winner that writes the history" (free translation from swedish), the conquerors of Britain: Normans and before them Saxons and even before them the Celts, became the dominating people and their myths and legends took over the original tales. But enough about Britain, as I know you englishmen know your history much better than I do. What's worse is that it looks like you know the history and legends of Scandinavia better than me too!

[Lalaith]

It's also interesting to compare the differences between Tolkien's mythology and that of the Norsemen.
There's no tricky and morally ambigious Loki figure in Tolkien (well maybe Osse at a stretch) and no shining Baldur either. Yes, Manwe and Odin are both sky gods, but their spouses are quite different. Elbereth is also associated with the sky, while Frigg is a hearth/fertility goddess. Aegir is a rather more sinister figure than Ulmo.
Tulkas is a kind of cross between Tyr and Thor, I think.
But Norse mythology is itself also something of a hybrid. The Vanir were clearly a different set of gods, (perhaps worshipped by a conquered or neighbouring people - they feel quite Finnish to me, although I'm no expert) which became amalgamated with the Viking pantheon. Gods like Ullr were also probably from an earlier pantheon than Odin and co.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Gothmog

Lalaith: I agree. Both the Valar and the Aesir (is it called that in English? Asar in Swedish...) are parts of a polytheistic world, altough the mythology of ME features a monotheistic faith as well in the form of Eru. As with the Aesir (or greek/roman or egyptian) gods, each Vala has it's own speciality. One could for example compare Manwe with Odin, the kings of the Valar/Aesir, both great in wisdom. And of course the parallel between Vaire and the Norns. And yes, to me the Valar feels closer to the Aesir than to the Greek/Roman gods.

Manwe is much more alike the god Zeus/Jupiter than Odin allthough resemblance can be found. You will seldom find a characther in the works of Tolkien who is identical with one from the Norse Mythology. This is because the heroes and Gods of Norse Mythology don't have morals. . . If you look at Odin he uses and kills innocent people in order for him to become more powerfull and wise.

He was wizard, harper (or what they are called), warrior, Ring Lord, All knowing god and trickster. He is kind of a mix of Sauron and Gandalf. He wandered all the worlds in search of wisdom and absolute power. Gandalf in the way that he wanders and talks to all beeings and therby gain knowledge. He like Gandalf is re-incarnatet and becomes even more powerfull.
Sauron end up only beeing one eye becouse he is so obsesed with power that he risk's every thing but the eye to get it. Odin becomes one eyed because he is so obsesed that he gives it to be allowed to drink frome the well of wisdome. . .

But I must ask you Rune, are we supposed to concentrate on on the Volsung Saga here or is the thread open for every kind of discussions? Comparing Rohirrim with the Vikings could be interesting as that's a connection often made. But the thread could end up a bit...chaotic. It's a wide topic, Norse Myths and Tolkien's work.

I know it is a wide topic, but it is a risk we must take in order to get a good discussion. I mentioned the Volsung Saga because it is loaded with resemblance and because it is one of the greates sagas. Allso if we start one place we might be able to controll the discusion a bit, but people are allowed to talk about whatever parts of the mytholohy they find interesting.