Hobbits the chosen people

[Gothmog]

Also - it is specifically stated that Bilbo did have a Tookish, adventurous side. Only it lay dormant until Gandalf awoke it.

Maybe so, but doesn't that mean that there should be an adventurous side laying dormant in a lot of hobbits? At least those that have Tookish blood? I don't say that Bilbo wasn't chosen specificly, he probably was, but maybe he and Frodo wasn't so different from many other hobbits, just that the others weren't "wakened". As we can see in the Scouring of Shire part, the hobbits can act both swift and strong if there's a need to. Bilbo wasn't more adventurous than other hobbits (at least others with Took-blood), but they all were dormant heroes And as I said, this doesn't make Bilbo less special, only less different. It was after all he and no-one else that was chosen for the mission.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Gothmog

Maybe so, but doesn't that mean that there should be an adventurous side laying dormant in a lot of hobbits?

Yes, I believe that it does.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

This isn't really on-topic but I think it's probably useful to say.

I come across as curt in RL, so who knows how obnoxious I can sound in some instances on the Downs? It's just my way and I mean no disrespect.

Hugs and kisses all round, ok? And let's leave it at that.

Now back to the Hobbits please.

[Himilsillion]

I am going to go out on a limb here just bear with me please. I can't remember if it was in the beginning of the Hobbit or the Fellowship but Tokien states that out of all the races in middle-earth hobbits are th closest to humans.(excluding the race of men which are humans) He even hints that they are from descendents of men. I think he elaborates this in his letters. We also learn that they came from the east. However we do not know what year they appeared in middle-earth. I think that hobbits were once men living in Rhovanion but they evolved into a smaller sub-species of men because they would be easer for them to hide from the easternlings. This also might explain why they live underground. We know the hobbits were living in the east some time after the Last Alliance and Gladden Fields because that is when Gollum found the Ring. Is it possible that Eru expected the race of men to destroy the Ring? After Isildur failed to destroy the Ring and defeat Sauron for good could Eru have made a sub-race of hobbits to succeed where men had failed? Men failed because they are to easily corrupted by the lust for power. Hobbits have no need for power and could care less for it. This is why they succeeded in overthrowing sauron.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Himilsillion

I think that hobbits were once men living in Rhovanion but they evolved into a smaller sub-species of men because they would be easer for them to hide from the easternlings.

Himilsillion, I agree with you that Hobbits are presented as a branch of the race of Men. But I would question whether evolution has any place in Tolkien's Legendarium.

Here's some other threads where these issues are discussed:

the origin of hobbits

Where do Hobbits come from

The question of whether Hobbits evolved from Men is discussed in the second of those threads. My own view remains as stated in that thread:

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Despite being an evolutionist in terms of our own development, I see little scope for evolution in Middle-earth. We know from the Silmarillion that Men and Elves awoke in much the same form as they appear in LotR. As I have posted elsewhere on a similar thread, I just don't see any scope for the evolution of 6 foot plus Men into 3 to 4 foot Hobbits, with the addition of hairy feet, in the time between Men awakening and the first appearance of Hobbits.

No, a branch of Mankind they may be, but I believe that Hobbits awaoke just as we see them in the Hobbit and LotR.

Unless we are to treat the story of creation in the Silmarillion in the same way that adherents to the theories of evolution and intelligent design treat the Book of Genesis in the Bible, it seems to me that there is little scope for the operation of evolution in Middle-earth.

[Gothmog]

Very interesting question Saucy: is there some kind of evolution in ME?

Problem is, there's a possibility that we'll end up discussing the theology of ME. As it is a "magic" world, we can assume that the story of creation in this case is true. And I don't mean to offend someone, but most people don't believe that Earth was created in 6 days nowadays. Now this raises new questions. In our world, evolution is a crucial part of life as we know it. Without evolution no living organisms would have developed. But in a world were a Creator (or Creators as it was the Valar that gave ME it's final shape, even if Eru created men and elves) really made everything complete from the beginning, there's no need for evolution.

And if we go a step further, there's no need for individuals to be different from the others. Actually, they shouldn't be different as different traits leads to different success in life and in mating, which leads to evolution. Asssuming the plants, animals and other living things in ME has the same way of passing characteristics to their offspring as the organisms of Earth has.

But of course there's differences within the races! No elf is the other alike. So is there evolution in ME? I'd say yes, probably.

BUT the hobbits might still have been created as a separate branch of men from the very beginning. I find it hard to believe that the hobbit characteristics would be of any great advantage over the characteristics of men. After they were created, they have evolved even further as everything else in ME probably has. The birds were created birds, not reptilians that developed feathers and so on. But then some kinds of birds has disappeared while new species has evolved from others. It's a mixture of evolution and a divine creation that has formed the flora and fauna of ME.

What effects do this theory of mine have on the question whether Hobbits are a chosen people or not? Well, not much. The progress of evolution doesn't mean that hobbits are something else than what Eru wanted them to be from the beginning. He(or maybe she? ) might very well have predicted this small changes and Bilbo and Frodo are the end products of a long-term plan of Eru.

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I found a quote that supports some of my earlier posts about hobbit's lack of greed and other human traits (The Letters):

The Hobbits are meant to be a branch of the human race, not dwarves or elves. Hence the two kinds can live together as they do in Bree, calling themselves the Big Folk and the Little Folk. They have no non-human "powers" but are more in touch with nature such as the soil, plants, and animals. Abnormally for humans, they are free from ambition or the greed for wealth. They are small, half human stature and dwindling with the passing of years. The size is partly to exhibit the pettiness of plain, unimaginative, parochial man. The other reason is to show, in creatures of very small physical power, the amazing and unexpected heroism of ordinary men "at a pinch".

The underlined part tells me that they should be great carriers for, well let's say... powerful rings?

hobbits are a bit like a human...they are kinda like cute ppl almost liek little farmer ppl. i would love to have been a hobbit. u know that sum pppl are born as hobbits and sum r born as normal borring ppl.