Track-by-Track: Soundtrack Discussion and Analysis

[Aiwendil]

This track has always struck me as deviating somewhat from the style of the rest of Shore's score. Some moments in it remind me very strongly of the Star Wars scores- for instance, the lower voices 'creeping about' at the beginning, or the rising march-like figure in the brass at 3:10. And the quintessentially 'spidery' music at about 1:27 and continuing calls to mind Herrmann's Psycho score. On the other hand, other moments do relate strongly to the rest of the LotR score - for instance, the tremolo/glissando that Encaitare notes at 1:47. Overall, a very effective track.

Encaitare said something interesting:

Like much of the music in Mordor, it's not necessarily the kind of thing you'd listen to for pleasure, but it definitely fits what's going on in the movie.

I wonder about this - to what extent do dark and depressing scenes warrant dark and depressing music that one wouldn't listen to for pleasure? I only bring it up because in my opinion there's a fallacy here, into which a fair number of directors, producers, and composers seem to be falling these days. The fallacy is that the best way to use music to accentuate unpleasantness is to make the music in some sense unpleasant. But it seems to me that music can suggest all these dark things while remaining thoroughly good, pleasurable music in its own right. I can think, for instance, of bits of Beethoven that could characterize Mordor quite well - and I think few would argue that Beethoven is not pleasurable.

John Williams said something about this in one of the Revenge of the Sith DVD special features - he noted (and I'm paraphrasing) that while the movie was certainly the darkest of the six, the score was probably not any darker than the other scores, because darkness need not be scored darkly.

[The Tennis Ball Kid]

One comment on track 10:

At 1:15, we return briefly to brass and lower strings in a melody that reminds me of a mix of Rivendell's music and "Into the West".

That's the "Silver Trumpet theme". The name comes from the scene where it's first heard; Boromir and Aragorn in Lothlorien, talking about Minas Tirith and "silver trumpets calling you home...".

The theme is associated with Gondor's line of kings, and it's rebirth with the return of the King.( ) It's heard once in FOTR, not at all in TTT, and in ROTK it's heard in Minas Tirith (as Gandalf and Pippin arrive at the city), the begining of The White Tree (as they pass by the white tree), and then here. There are also several statements not on the album, most notably when Anduril is reforged, and then quite beautifully during "The Decline Of Gondor".


Shelob's Lair actually is the kind of thing I sometimes listen to for pleasure. As Aiwendil noted, I can hear Hermann in this...sounds a lot like parts of Cape Fear.

This is Shore going back to his roots, with The Fly, and other horror scores...creepy indeed!


ttbk

[Lathriel]

Encaitare is away so I will just introduce track 12.

It begins with low brass and violins. It really has an urgent tone to it. I think the eeriest part of this track is when the choir joins in at 1:10. There is a reall build up to it with the trumpets. I don't really like that part because the trumpets are muffled (you kow when they put the muffler in their bells.) It has such a harsh sound bu it does fit Mordor.
However, I do like the track overall because of the choir and the overall creepy mood that is maintained throughout the track.
So what do you think?

[Encaitare]

Before I put up the next track, I shall give a few brief thoughts on Track 12.

I love how the horns in LotR (both in the soundtrack and the ones the Rohirrim use) all sound in a perfect fifth. I don't know if that's how medieval horns were; I've been trying to find out, unsuccessfully. Anyhow, since the open fifth is such a pure interval, I think it does succeed in making that sound meant to inspire warriors in battle.

The choir is lovely and eerie. I did a bit of searching and found this for the lyrics:

Coll am
na waewath goeyl

Tellin i Neder
Gurth renia

Meditha han phan
Meditha ar dhon

[Source]

Borne aloft
By fell winds.

The Nine have come
Death has taken wing.

He will eat it all
Eat all the world.

This sounds right to me, although the lyrics only make sense in the EE DVD, when Gandalf and the Witch-King face off.

Now for the next track! There is a low playing of the Rohan theme at the very beginning. Then there are these astonishing chords at 0:50, which I think is one of the most beautiful progressions in the whole score, and I admire its simplicity. I listened to it several times and figured out the chords to that little section (0:50-1:07). I think it's right, although maybe I messed up an inversion. The key is A minor:

i VI6 i v6 i VI6 iii6 VII6/4 VI

By the end of the phrase, it's moved into F major and arpeggiates in a little fanfare. Then it moves quickly into music akin to that of Mordor. At 1:47 the choir comes back in. Here, the two sites I've been using conflict. A Magpie's Nest says that the Ringwraith words that I quoted above are what the choir is saying; Gwaith-i-Phethdain says it's this:

Dollost - dîr cuiol
u-'ar nin degi!

Le echelithar aen
Athar fuin ban
Rhaw lîn mannen
Ind tham lîn
Lanc na chen be-thobas.

Anant i vaethor ú-ritha
Hên Rohan
Fim sui anghathel
Bain a goeol.

Na vedui istant
Na vedui cenn
Dîr ú-naun hon...
Vess e tiriant.


You fool - no living man
Can kill me!

You will be borne away
Beyond all darkness;
Your flesh devoured;
Your shriveled mind
Left naked to the lidless eye.

But still the soldier did not move,
Child of Rohan,
Slender as a steel-blade,
Fair yet terrible.

Too late he knew,
Too late saw,
This was no man...
He looked upon a woman.

I'm inclined to go with the first one because it seems to fit better. The track closes on another triumphant fanfare.

Hello all. Magpie here. I found this thread by following information in my site statistics and was intrigued by the discussion so I've been following along for a few weeks now.

I know this is primarily a music discussion, not lyric, but I thought I could provide some information on the discrepancy in lyrics between my site and Ryszard's (G-i-P).

The poem Angmar can be found in an article about David Salo in a magazine issue devoted to the LOTR soundtracks. It says, "Witch King Attacks Eowyn". The poem The Nazgul can be found in the same issue in an article about ROTK. It says, "The Nazgul attack Minas Tirith".

You will notice that G-i-P lists both poems as being contained in The Fields of the Pelennor. For Angmar. it gives a time stamp. For The Nazgul, it provides phonetic syllables which match the words in that poem.

Since the phonetic lyrics come from the LOTR Symphony, we know they were sung there. Also, I know someone who had a score from the symphony and she confirmed they were sung to The Ringwraith Theme. (That section of track 13 is considered a Ringwraith variant.)

I can't explain why G-i-P has lists Angmar as being sung there, but the phonetic lyrics are what convince me that the lyrics are from The Nazgul and my ears confirm this.

I'm not trying to defend my position... I just never expect anyone to take anything on faith. Usually when I disagree with someone, like in this track, I try to explain my opinion. For some reason, I didn't do that - probably because I was rushing a lot to get those last cue by cues up. It is my intention to some day email Ryszard with my corrections. I haven't taken the time to yet, but he hasn't updated his movie work in awhile either. I suspect we're both just busy.

I'm happy that my work has been a support for this lovely discussion. I'll keep following along, if you don't mind. And watch the What's New section of A Magpie's Nest for updates in the next few weeks.

edit:
ahem... interesting label I have there, "newly deceased". I can assure you I feel quite healthy... except for this cough.

[Kitanna]

This is going to be a quick post and hopefully I can say something a little bit longer later, but the beginning of this song always reminds me of Mars: The Bringer of War. It's just that opening beat that is so soft I have to turn my speakers up all the way to hear it.

[Encaitare]

Welcome to the Downs, Magpie! It's great to see you here, especially since your site has provided such excellent references and information to help in our discussions.

Originally Posted by Magpie

I can't explain why G-i-P has lists Angmar as being sung there, but the phonetic lyrics are what convince me that the lyrics are from The Nazgul and my ears confirm this.

I agree; I was going crazy trying to follow the Angmar lyrics along with the music and it just wouldn't work... finally I tried it with The Nazgul, and lo and behold, it fit.

Enjoy reading the thread, and feel free to put your two cents in at anytime!