Hobbits the chosen people - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Farael · 12-05-2005, 02:57 PM

I've argued for this already yet my comment seems to have gone unnoticed. While it's plausible that Eru created the Hobbits knowing (as He knows everything) they would be necessary, it does not mean they are the "chosen people" If by that you think of it on the biblical meaning. The Israelites as chosen people were not sent out in a quest to save the world but rather to show the world how G'd Himself wants men to behave. They were chosen to learn and to be judged by the laws of G'd, while the rest of the world would look upon them for enlightment. They would be the 'priests' in the Earth as a temple of G'd.

On the other hand the Hobbits are a race of creatures that could have been created with a specific purpose in the mind of Eru (but then, which creature would not?) and that purpose being to save the Middle Earth, but it does not sound much like the biblical idea of chosen people.

davem · 12-05-2005, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farael

The Israelites as chosen people were not sent out in a quest to save the world but rather to show the world how G'd Himself wants men to behave. .

Deuteronomy 3:6

Lhunardawen · 12-06-2005, 12:58 AM

On a side note, I think it's the descendants of the remnant of the Numenoreans that sailed to Middle-earth who are the chosen people. Gondor and Arnor seem too much like Israel and Judah, if you ask me...

I'll get me coat.

Himilsillion · 12-08-2005, 06:24 PM

I agree with Lhunardawen that it does seem like a chosen people in middle-earth are the desendents of the Numenoreans. Two kingdoms that were united and then split. Anyway thats getting of topic. I think that this thread is meant to discuss if hobbits were chosen by Eru to help save middle-earth in a non-biblical sense. So do you think that Eru deliberately made the Hobbits or maybe made is not the right word...
anyway did Eru decide that the race of Hobbits should save middle-earth?

Morsul the Dark · 12-09-2005, 09:33 AM

all good points indeed(and may i thank saucy for defending me)

Perhaps i cxame on a bit strong with "chosen people" i do believe that although hobbits are based on england the dwarves are closer to the actual culture(thanks bethberry for brionging up my older threads.)

I dont think tolkien created hobbits "better than everyone" because they were british

i only meant this, remember tolkien wrote LOTR as an observer to him they appeared to be human-like, so in actuality we dont know when how or who crerated hobbits. And Saucepanman is right i also think there is very little space for evolution in ME

now an interesting point/question came up
if the hobbits were "chosen why the fellowship.

well think about this without bilbo finding the ring and frodo carrying it to rivendel would aragorn really have gone to minas tirith without merry and pippin would the three hunters ended up in rohan the hobbits of the fellowship almost act as guides bringing each group to their particular destiny.

Elu Ancalime · 01-13-2006, 06:58 PM

I dont think anyone mentioned this, but I dont think the Hobbits were directly created like Men and Elves and Dwarves were. Being a strain of Men, they are like a more distant division, like say If there were a realm of elves in harad. They are still elves, but they would be so different. Ok, maybe a bad example, but what i think is is that the river folk grew so appart from Men that they became recognized as a different line. So instead of Illuvatar poffing hobbits next to the Anduin, they were rather 'melded' from men. Whether or not it was by the action of Eru or the Valar cant really be said. Illuvatar didnt need a hobbit to find the ring, or a hobbit to be appointed to carry it. Now while that statement may sound completely false, what I mean is that a character (Frodo) would carry the Ring to Mt Doom. Frodo and Bilbo, being unlike most hobbits, could do that. So Frodo could have been a dwarf who interested in the affairs in the world, instead of being mainly close minded on his own land and affairs. So frodo just happened to be a hobbit, and hobbits just happened to be more resiliant to the Rings temptation. I suppose in this case, it was nature over nurture .
________
Sex Tube

Morsul the Dark · 02-25-2006, 10:23 AM

but they werent unlike most hobbits... sure they needed less influence to become adventurers however as we see in the scouring of the shire no hobbit is without a mean streak

12-08-2005, 06:24 PM	#4
Himilsillion Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: In Sweet Home Chicago Posts: 30	I agree with Lhunardawen that it does seem like a chosen people in middle-earth are the desendents of the Numenoreans. Two kingdoms that were united and then split. Anyway thats getting of topic. I think that this thread is meant to discuss if hobbits were chosen by Eru to help save middle-earth in a non-biblical sense. So do you think that Eru deliberately made the Hobbits or maybe made is not the right word... anyway did Eru decide that the race of Hobbits should save middle-earth? __________________ Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago. We got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes; it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses. Jake: Hit it!

12-09-2005, 09:33 AM	#5
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	all good points indeed(and may i thank saucy for defending me) Perhaps i cxame on a bit strong with "chosen people" i do believe that although hobbits are based on england the dwarves are closer to the actual culture(thanks bethberry for brionging up my older threads.) I dont think tolkien created hobbits "better than everyone" because they were british i only meant this, remember tolkien wrote LOTR as an observer to him they appeared to be human-like, so in actuality we dont know when how or who crerated hobbits. And Saucepanman is right i also think there is very little space for evolution in ME now an interesting point/question came up if the hobbits were "chosen why the fellowship. well think about this without bilbo finding the ring and frodo carrying it to rivendel would aragorn really have gone to minas tirith without merry and pippin would the three hunters ended up in rohan the hobbits of the fellowship almost act as guides bringing each group to their particular destiny. __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

01-13-2006, 06:58 PM	#6
Elu Ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Anador Posts: 476	I bumped into this thread. I dont think anyone mentioned this, but I dont think the Hobbits were directly created like Men and Elves and Dwarves were. Being a strain of Men, they are like a more distant division, like say If there were a realm of elves in harad. They are still elves, but they would be so different. Ok, maybe a bad example, but what i think is is that the river folk grew so appart from Men that they became recognized as a different line. So instead of Illuvatar poffing hobbits next to the Anduin, they were rather 'melded' from men. Whether or not it was by the action of Eru or the Valar cant really be said. Illuvatar didnt need a hobbit to find the ring, or a hobbit to be appointed to carry it. Now while that statement may sound completely false, what I mean is that a character (Frodo) would carry the Ring to Mt Doom. Frodo and Bilbo, being unlike most hobbits, could do that. So Frodo could have been a dwarf who interested in the affairs in the world, instead of being mainly close minded on his own land and affairs. So frodo just happened to be a hobbit, and hobbits just happened to be more resiliant to the Rings temptation. I suppose in this case, it was nature over nurture . ________ Sex Tube Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 10:41 PM.

02-25-2006, 10:23 AM	#7
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	but they werent unlike most hobbits... sure they needed less influence to become adventurers however as we see in the scouring of the shire no hobbit is without a mean streak __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

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12-05-2005, 02:57 PM	#1
Farael Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: In hospitals, call rooms and (rarely) my apartment. Posts: 1,538	I've argued for this already yet my comment seems to have gone unnoticed. While it's plausible that Eru created the Hobbits knowing (as He knows everything) they would be necessary, it does not mean they are the "chosen people" If by that you think of it on the biblical meaning. The Israelites as chosen people were not sent out in a quest to save the world but rather to show the world how G'd Himself wants men to behave. They were chosen to learn and to be judged by the laws of G'd, while the rest of the world would look upon them for enlightment. They would be the 'priests' in the Earth as a temple of G'd. On the other hand the Hobbits are a race of creatures that could have been created with a specific purpose in the mind of Eru (but then, which creature would not?) and that purpose being to save the Middle Earth, but it does not sound much like the biblical idea of chosen people.

12-06-2005, 12:58 AM	#3
Lhunardawen Hauntress of the Havens Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IN it, but not OF it Posts: 2,538	On a side note, I think it's the descendants of the remnant of the Numenoreans that sailed to Middle-earth who are the chosen people. Gondor and Arnor seem too much like Israel and Judah, if you ask me... I'll get me coat.