What if??

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Yes, the Eagles would have been greater in those days but they could probably challenge Smaug if they fought together.

I don't think Smaug's fire would have been hot enough to destroy the One Ring (if any Dragon's fire ever could have).

Was the initial post asking what would have happened at the Black Gate? If so, more Eagles would have died (possibly) but it would have had no effect on Frodo's quest. Unless Sauron convinced Smaug to guard Mount Doom. That could be an idea.

[Farael]

I don't think Smaug's fire would have been hot enough to destroy the One Ring (if any Dragon's fire ever could have).

I don't have time now but remind me to check tonight. I'm almost sure that in The Fellowship of The Ring, either when Gandalf throws the Ring to Frodo's fire or when, at Elrond's council they talk about destroying it, someone (probably Gandalf) says that the fire of the dragons might have been able to, but there are none left.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

I'm almost sure that in The Fellowship of The Ring, either when Gandalf throws the Ring to Frodo's fire or when, at Elrond's council they talk about destroying it, someone (probably Gandalf) says that the fire of the dragons might have been able to, but there are none left.

I believe Gandalf observes that not even Ancalagon the Black
could have destroyed the One Ring.

[Farael]

Then I guess I'm wrong =) Still, I'll dobule check

[Oddwen]

That would be an interesting scenario...I imagine that Sauron (if he couldn't "control" Smaug) would at least try to make an ally of him. Rather like Morgoth and Ungoliant joining up to take down the Two Trees, each had something the other could profit from.

Hmm...maybe instead of just sending the Nazgul, Sauron could have sent Smaug to the Shire and laid it to ruin and then searched for the Ring in the ashes. Gandalf feared for Rivendell from the Dragon, I doubt the Shire could hold up longer than that.

But does Ringlust take hold on dragons, aside from their love of gold in general?

Very interesting thoughts.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Oddwen

But does Ringlust take hold on dragons, aside from their love of gold in general?

That's another very interesting question.... We know that Dragons were very powerful and had some sort of 'magical' powers, at least over the minds of humans and hobbits (see Turin and... what was the name of the dragon?... and Bilbo and Smaug) and they did have a lust for power and gold, so I would guess that not only they'd have ringlust but also, should they be able to somehow put the ring on, they would be able to use it.

But then, we know nothing about this, so it's all a guess.

[Reg Pither]

Originally Posted by Oddwen

Hmm...maybe instead of just sending the Nazgul, Sauron could have sent Smaug to the Shire and laid it to ruin and then searched for the Ring in the ashes.

But wouldn't the Ring be destroyed in the dragon's fire, making an ashes search fruitless?

[Lalaith]

You're in luck, ManofDale, Gandalf himself answers your question....

'It might all have gone very differently indeed. The main attack was diverted southwards, it is true; and yet even so with his far-stretched right hand Sauron could have done terrible harm in the north, while we defended Gondor, if King Brand and king Dain had not stood in his path. When you think of the great battle of Pelennor, do not forget the Battle of Dale. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador! There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might only hope to return from the victory here to ruin and ash

[Tuor of Gondolin]

On a related point about isildur claiming the
Ring as weregild, did Gilgalad have descendents?
And if so, wouldn't they have had an equal claim
to the Ring- and so to have argued to destroy it?

[bilbo_baggins]

Gil-galad's descendants would not have had as close a personal cliam to the ring, Tuor because Isildur himself cut the Ring from Sauron's hand. You might argue that elves are wiser than humans, and therefore should control the all-powerful ring, but then again, they themselves are susceptible to the Ringlust (Galadriel's struggle), and are just as vulnerable as Men. In my opinion then, Isildur has the highest claim for the ring; his own descendant (Aragorn) has no more trouble than Galadriel in not taking the Ring.

I think that the Ring would not affect Smaug as much as you might think. After all, Smaug's confrontations with Bilbo proved that he could not easily be wiled and fooled. That and his inherent magical powers would combine to form his own personal magic mental block. That would also prevent Sauron from controlling him. Dragons were just too darn powerful.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Tuor of Gondolin

On a related point about Isildur claiming the Ring as weregild, did Gilgalad have descendents?

Regardless of weregild claims, the point is moot since Gil-galad left no known offspring, and seems to have been single all of his life. For that reason, after his death, Elrond was the de facto Seventh High King of the Noldor- although the decimation and migration of the Noldor that occurred as a result of the War of the Last Alliance meant that actually claiming any such title would have been a rather silly thing to do...