Outracing the Flames Discussion Thread

[Undómë]

Rædwald is leaving shortly after the main group is already on their way.

[Arry]

Steelers! hack, cough . . .

Seahawks

[piosenniel]

From a previous post by Arry:

Until our two groups join together - let's use the names of the 2 villages in bold as headers to our posts. I think it will be easier to keep track of our separate groups that way.

So - most likely if you see an 'edited by piosenniel' on your post - it will be to add your village's header.

~*~ Pio

[Nogrod]

Hello, fellow travellers'!

It's nice to see, that things are cooking after all! Good! And off we go!

But still I would like to be a kind of hornet (hopefully in a kind of Socrates' like of manner than as just a wit-picker) as regards to our starting positions.

If discrepancies with Tolkien’s Middle Earth are neglicible in general in BD, I’m not going to be the one to demand correction to the normal gaming-practises’. The game would work easier the way, we are going right now. But if there is a wish to set the game in somewhat original locations, and not to sway the logic of ME, I would voice a concern about the placement of the villages’.

Outlanders’ must live outside some natural border of Rohan to be called “outlanders”. The only natural borders around Wold seem to be rivers. But should these outlanders’ really be dwelling at the eastside of Anduin? This choice will surely meet the first-sight requirements of gaming as planned eg. making it easier from the standpoint of the plot. But there are several problems here.

Firstly, the idea of Rohan-people living at the eastbank of Anduin sounds pretty far fetched. It would be too dangerous and hard – and even futile: there is room enough in Wold, or around Entwood, to accomodate ten times the population it has. So why to go over the Great River, to perilous areas, when there is room enough in these safer locations too? (Well, we could come up with something, better pastures? Maybe these villages’ are so old, that there has been no threat until now, and the fields have been good at times long by etc.?)

Secondly, we will have some problems concerning the crossing of the Great River. As the greatest river in the familiar Middle Earth, it should be both wide, and having a very strong current. So it would be quite impropable, that there were nice fords’ at regular basis. I don’t remember Tolkien telling anything about the fellowship having to carry their boats for a while, because of a ford at Anduin.

So how should the outlander people go regularily over the river? By boats? Well enough for people, but how about horses? By some kind of rafts? (that’s what I would go for, if we leave it here) But how would we ensure, there is a raft at both sides of the river, and how steerable is a raft in the strong current of the Great River? We could have ropes, surely, but I just find it awkward to figure out, how the fellowship in LotR had to duck, while passing the Wold-rohanians’ ropes...

So thirdly, we would have a specific problem of our game. Could four outlanders’ get themselves over the river with their horses (rafts would need quite a pulling power)? How about one old-timer doing the same alone (Raedwald)? Or another old-timer doing it in the dark of the night (Sythric)?

I don’t know about the plans Arry has, but if Arry’s plans are not tied to certain geographical locations, we could think once more about the first settings of the game. If Arry’s plans require places’ he has outlined to us with current settings, it will surely be ok. with me. You all can just forget these thoughts I’ve brought out.

But another option could be seen. The river Limleith (?) (Limlight) is coming from Entwood to the river Anduin. People might live north of Limlight and be rohanians (f.ex. just north of 'L' at the map). True outlanders’, but still in little more secure foundations than those who would be living east of Anduin. They could come over the river - a minor river should have a ford somewhere - and ride alongside Entwood’s edge to the Entwash, where the party of Wulfhamers’ would come too (If Wulfham would be somewhere near the 'U' of the Undeeps on the map, at the west side of Anduin of course)? And there the parties could meet – if Arry hasn’t planned it otherwise... There would then be some time, before this meeting (and people would have time to get on together)

So Arry, if your ideas concerning the happenings’ of both parties are not tied to certain locations, I hope, you would think this one more time.

If some of my premises’ are bad or untrue, I’ll apologize the time you spent with this letter...

PS. Arry: check the PM before answering.

[Arry]

Will reply later - when I'm back home.

What PM, by the way?

-- Arry

[Arry]

Everyone please read this.

This is how I see the setting for the game:

Villages:

I’d really like the two villages to remain where we’ve put them. They are both small, fairly isolated places. They are not wealthy villages, but have managed to scrape a living from the Wold and the Brown Lands. That is one of the reasons their village leaders wish to bring them in closer to the more defensible, larger towns – eg., moving toward Edoras.

The Bregoware group has chosen the name of the village in this way:

Since our village is just outside the eastern boundary of Rohan, that would put us on the other side of the Anduin. How about we say our village is near a ford in the river. Old English for "ford" is "ware".

And just to tie us into Rohan proper - we could have some old story of how one of the early kings of Rohan used the crossing to for . . . well, something important . . . "Brego" is the Old English word for "ruler or lord".

And Brego was the second King of Rohan . . . so stretching it a bit, our village could be called:

Bregoware

And yes, Tolkien never actually mentioned ‘King’s Ford’ but he did say, in Unfinished Tales, “The History of Galadriel and Celeborn”, Appendix C that:

. . . [T]he great loops of the Anduin (where it came down swiftly past Lorien and entered the low flat lands before its descent again into the chasm of the Emyn Muil) had many shallows and wide shoals . . . especially in the two westward bends, known as the North and South Undeeps.

I’ll grant that the river still moves at a fair pace and could be treacherous if trying to cross on horse or foot.

Therefore, I propose that the Bregowarians have a ferry at their ford, with a ferryman and his family who run it. Since the villages are few and far between in this part of Rohan, I can see the outlanders ferrying across their goats and sheep (the smaller flocks) to pasture often along the empty western side of the river – especially if those with cattle and horses used most of the good pasture land on the Outland side of the river.

----------

The attacking Orcs and Men of the East:

This is not a big invading army that is marching westward into Rohan.

From the timeline for the game:

This game takes place in the Third Age, very late autumn, of the year just prior to the start of the War of the Ring. (The War of the Ring begins in June of 3018 TA)

What I see for the game are small parties of invaders making more and more frequent incursions into Rohan. They can be gathering information, simply marauding the outlying and less defendable villages, carrying information, etc, between Isengard and Mordor.

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About the two groups meeting up:

Here’s how we can handle this problem.

Since the two groups are completely discrete entities at the beginning of the game, we do not need to assume that both groups leave on the same day.

The Wulfhamers will have left their village say{EDIT DONE} 3 days prior to the Bregoware group. That should leave enough time for the Wulfhamers to come within range of the Bregowarians as they travel south.

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Can we all work with these ideas?


-- Arry

[Valier]

Roger, Roger, good Moddie!!

[Nogrod]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Arry

Everyone please read this.
This is how I see the setting for the game:
I’ll grant that the river still moves at a fair pace and could be treacherous if trying to cross on horse or foot.

Therefore, I propose that the Bregowarians have a ferry at their ford, with a ferryman and his family who run it.

This is perfectly fine with me. Maybe it was good that I asked (became clear to us all), but sorry to have been putting my ideas forwards so insistencely. Just learning the trade...

The attacking Orcs and Men of the East:

This is not a big invading army that is marching westward into Rohan.

What I see for the game are small parties of invaders making more and more frequent incursions into Rohan. They can be gathering information, simply marauding the outlying and less defendable villages, carrying information, etc, between Isengard and Mordor.

We might put the words of the Bregoware March-warden (in my post) in general "brackets". He was understandably kind of over-reacting to the situation (and basically, Sythric was right!). This is ok.

Since the two groups are completely discrete entities at the beginning of the game, we do not need to assume that both groups leave on the same day.

The Wulfhamers will have left their village say 2 weeks prior to the Bregoware group. That should leave enough time for the Wulfhamers to come within range of the Bregowarians as they travel south.

Good idea! All of our thoughts have lingered about the people of these two villages' starting on the very same morning - or at least, I have thought it that way (the bells / horns are sounding at the middle of the night in both places etc.). This idea of your's is both logical (outlanders' would hear the alarm sooner) and more flexible (with interest of molding the game).

Even though, I think, two weeks is quite a long time (compared to the overall time, we think, we could manage to the Golden Hall!).

But that should come to clear in its time.