Ilúvatar's other theme.

[Raynor]

I was going to use that same quote from Ainulindalë to suggest that here in the 2nd Theme is where we find the ideals, icons, or even standards of good and evil born, regardless of entity.

I would say that evil entered the Ainulindale even before the second theme, together with Melkor's distortion of the first theme.

[drigel]

Originally Posted by Raynor

I would say that evil entered the Ainulindale even before the second theme, together with Melkor's distortion of the first theme.

In my mind, Melkor's distortion wasnt defined as evil (or, not in accordance) per say, after the first theme when

Ilúvatar arose, and the Ainur perceived that he smiled; and he lifted up his left hand,

rather when

Ilúvatar arose, and the Ainur perceived that his countenance was stern; and he lifted up his right hand

then begins the 3rd theme with Ea, and the children, revealing to the universe what would be later be recognized as good, in contrast to what was revealed in the 2nd theme.

May not make sense to anyone else but me but oh well...

[Findegil]

Well at least I am with you drigel!

I also think that it was not against any rule for Melkor to introduce his own idea into the music. That it did not fit the first theme of Eru was unconvenient and Melkor should hve marked it himself and stop introducing it. But such perfection was not asked from him since Eru still smiled introducing the second theme.

But here I begin to disagree with drigel: the sconde theme did define what was whished for by Eru. To continue with a theme alien to Erus first or seconde theme was acting deliberatly against the will of Eru, wich I would asume to be evil. Wich is then refelced by Erus stern face.

The third theme was than no longer to define what Erus police was, it was his way to deal with the effect of Melkors continued evil behavior. The theme was succesful because it found its way to get around the theme of Melkor and even benefit from that theme. But Melkor did not learn his lesson. Therefore Eru did stop the music in the end to teach him and the other in plain words.( )

That's how I read the Ainulindal. Thus I would say evil arose with Melkor continuing his theme after Erus first intervetion.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Raynor]

In the BoLT version, the entering of evil in the first theme is even clearer:

There [in the dark places] had he nonetheless fallen to thinking deep cunning thoughts of his own, all of which he showed not even to Iluvatar. Some of these devisings and imaginings he now wove into his music, and straightway harshness and discor- dancy rose about him, and many of those that played nigh him grew despondent and their music feeble, and their thoughts unfinished and unclear, while many others fell to attuning their music to his rather than to the great theme wherein they began.

In this way the mischief of Melko spread darkening the music, for those thoughts of his came from the outer blackness whither Iluvatar had not yet turned the light of his face; and because his secret thoughts had no kinship with the beauty of Iluvatar's design its harmonies were broken and destroyed. Yet sat Iluvatar and hearkened till the music reached a depth of gloom and ugliness unimaginable; then did he smile sadly and raised his left hand, and immediately, though none clearly knew how, a new theme began among the clash, like and yet unlike the first, and it gathered power and sweetness.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Wasn't is said in the BoLT version of the Ainulindalë that when he raised his left hand Eru smiled sadly?

[Raynor]

Yes, it is said that (in the HoME X version, that refference doesn't appear, though "the discord of Melkor" still is present before Eru's second theme).