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View Poll Results: The ‘special freedom’ of Man is expressed:
During his lifetime, in Arda, through special freedom of action 22 61.11%
In the fact of the Death 21 58.33%
After the Death 12 33.33%
I’m not sure 3 8.33%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-16-2006, 03:05 PM   #1
Raynor
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Raynor has just left Hobbiton.
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If Feanor had agreed to surrender the Silmarils & sided with the Valar the revolt would not have happened, the Valar would probably have made the decision to go after Morgoth with a large force.
Do you mean, as in sooner than they did? In that case, I would have to disagree:
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Originally Posted by Notes on motives in the Silmarillion, ii, Myths Transformed, HoME X
But in this way Morgoth lost (or exchanged, or transmuted) the greater part of his original 'angelic' powers, of mind and spirit, while gaining a terrible grip upon the physical world. For this reason he had to be fought, mainly by physical force, and enormous material ruin was a probable consequence of any direct combat with him, victorious or otherwise. This is the chief explanation of the constant reluctance of the Valar to come into open battle against Morgoth. Manwe's task and problem was much more difficult than Gandalf's. Sauron's, relatively smaller, power was concentrated; Morgoth's vast power was disseminated. The whole of 'Middle-earth' was Morgoth's Ring, though temporarily his attention was mainly upon the North-west. Unless swiftly successful, War against him might well end in reducing all Middle-earth to chaos, possibly even all Arda. It is easy to say: 'It was the task and function of the Elder King to govern Arda and make it possible for the Children of Eru to live in it unmolested.' But the dilemma of the Valar was this: Arda could only be liberated by a physical battle; but a probable result of such a battle was the irretrievable ruin of Arda.
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The last intervention with physical force by the Valar, ending in the breaking of Thangorodrim, may then be viewed as not in fact reluctant or even unduly delayed, but timed with precision
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The point is, in terms of action in the world Men's actions are known by Eru but not dictated by Him directly or indirectly, while Elves actions are both known & dictated.
I don't think that 'dictated' is the best possible label; after all, they do have such 'freedoms' such as the severance of marriage, reincarnation or answering the summoning of Mandos.
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Old 02-16-2006, 03:15 PM   #2
davem
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davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Ok then, If Feanor had agreed to surrender the Silmarils to Yavanna, thereby avoiding the Revolt & its consequences, & asked permission to lead a force into M-e to confront Morgoth, Manwe would have been free to agree. The effect would have been the same: Noldor in M-e to lead the long struggle against Morgoth.

The problem we face is how to account for the fact that Elves apparently have no freedom to act against the dictates of the Music, but are still moral beings, not robots.
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