Gandalf Vs. The Witch King

[Essex]

We have to remember also, in the book, that Rohirrim's forces were also fading. When they saw the ships with the black sales all hope was lost. So therefore, Aragorn and his men also saved the day. In the film, as you point out Guinivere, that

In the end it's the ghastly green termite-army of the undead who saves the town.

I've tried to answer this one before. If we do not have the men of the Dead in the Pellenor, then we would have to have yet ANOTHER battle scene at Pelagir on the River. We would have to invest time in the men of the Dead fighting the Corsairs, Aragorn freeing the Slaves, Aragorn picking up all the other men, Aragorn freeing the King of the Dead and his people from their curse - in the book we had this told to us in retrospect - this would not work in a movie - all none book readers would be shouting 'where di all the green guys go?'

so without the 'green men' at Pellonor we would have to have ANOTHER big fight scene, lots of scene setting and dialouge which would SLOW the film down now that Jackson has helped skillfully bring it up towards a crescendo, and therefore we would have no surprise entrance into the Pellenor (as we have in the book) by Aragorn and co.

Therefore film wise, I can understand why Jackson had the Dead help fight Sauron's forces at Pellenor rather than at Pelagir. It was the lesser of two evils. Hey, I'd like a full length unabridged version of the text made into a mini series, and then we can have the EXACT scenes acted out as Tolkien described them. 54 hours of material (thats how long it takes to read it out aloud), with exposition, retrospective telling of tales etc cannot be fitted into three 3-4 hour movies.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Essex

Therefore film wise, I can understand why Jackson had the Dead help fight Sauron's forces at Pellenor rather than at Pelagir. It was the lesser of two evils. Hey, I'd like a full length unabridged version of the text made into a mini series, and then we can have the EXACT scenes acted out as Tolkien described them. 54 hours of material (thats how long it takes to read it out aloud), with exposition, retrospective telling of tales etc cannot be fitted into three 3-4 hour movies.

But couldn't we have cut one dwarf drinking scene in exchange for showing Aragorn freeing one of many slaves, so that when the little green men do 'deboat,' they do so along with other non-ghost help?

[Essex]

yes, why not? free a few slaves and let them jump off too and fight. don't think that would need too much exposition to do. maybe pj thought of this but didn't want the thought of even more fighters at the Pellenor people would have to keep track of. hang on, is he a baddie or a goody? I know that guy with the painted face is a baddie. but what about these other 'humans'?

just trying to see WHY he did it this way. yes, the films aren't perfect and there are occasions where we see things we could have done much better (I can't wait until we meet faramir in the TT discussion thread!)

I take back the comments originally posted - PJ has explained these elsewhere already.

Wow! It's been a little over a year, and this thread is still sparking heated conversation as I never thought I would arouse. Thank you everyone for your shared intellect and well mannered behavior, I would expect nothing less.

[Essex]

Argonath,

talk about 'Light the blue torch paper and retire'

I take it you like setting off Fireworks then!

[alatar]

We can now finally answer the question posed by this thread. The new The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II video game website has both Gandalf the White and the Witch-King on the Fellbeast. Each character is modeled as in the PJ films. If someone or persons would like to pitch in, buy and send me the game, I will volunteer my scientific background to put this question to the test.

A HD monitor (23" or greater) may yield more convincing results .

[narfforc]

I have played this game, having recently bought it. You are able to play as Evil or Good. I have played both, and utterly destroyed both Gandalf the White and The Witch-King against each other, defeating Sauron is not too difficult either. Playing as Sauron is pretty cool though. Both Battle for Middle-earth and Battle for Middle-earth II are great games, but are not the answer to this question. For instance, I defeated Gondor using Saruman and a Balrog. The games are great for what if's, you can even have a dragon to control.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by narfforc

Both Battle for Middle-earth and Battle for Middle-earth II are great games, but are not the answer to this question.

Too cool. But note that I'm still willing to undertake conducting the experimentation at other's expense.

narfforc, shhh! I'm trying to get someone to buy me the game...

[The 1,000 Reader]

Originally Posted by alatar

We can now finally answer the question posed by this thread. The new The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II video game website has both Gandalf the White and the Witch-King on the Fellbeast. Each character is modeled as in the PJ films. If someone or persons would like to pitch in, buy and send me the game, I will volunteer my scientific background to put this question to the test.

A HD monitor (23" or greater) may yield more convincing results .

Using a game franchise in which Gandalf was once practically Eru on Arda and the Witch-King is about to get an expansion which will give him the ability to summon enormous spiritual werewolves and destroy entire armies with it does not answer anything involving Tolkien's work.

I can see it now; Gandalf will be riding a tidal wave and lifting up rocks with his mind while shouting "I am God!" On the other side of the battle field, the Witch-King will be flying through the air (without a fell beast) shooting lightning from his hands shouting "Power! Unlimited power!" Overblown Gandalf and Super Sidious to be do not account for Regular Gandalf and Regular Witch-King.

Overall, Tolkien does nothing to suggest that any warrior is stronger than the other in the showdown at the gate. Gandalf has been grim regarding the possible fight, and the Witch-King shows no fear of Gandalf at the gate. Gandalf may be a maia, but the book shows that he's probably thinking "This guy might kick my butt" at the gate.

In the end, they didn't fight, so there's no need to look at this confrontation with a telescope in the books. As for the movie, that was a, so to speak, "badass-proving moment." (Yes, I know, you don't like swears, but I'm making a point here.) Overall, that scene was pretty much just to create an "Oh snap" moment for Gandalf fanatics who bought the EE.

[The Saucepan Man]

A light-hearted aside concerning computer games does not constitute an off-topic discussion.

Were the thread to descend into a full-blown discusion of the games, then it would have veered off-topic, but that has not happened here.

Best leave the modding to the mods, Mansun.

And can everyone please remember to keep the discussion polite and courteous.

Thanks.